"Slavery" in the Bible

[POI]

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7.

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 "But if the servant declares, I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free, 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

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Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'

[POI]

I make no assumptions about how God felt about how believers should approach every different form of slavery in the OT.

No assumptions needed. God feels that lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding are perfectly fine. But I doubt you do. This means your moral compass likely does not actually align with the Bible God's moral compass.

8th request... Why follow a God in which their moral compass does not align with your own?

[marke]

I make no assumptions about how God felt about how believers should approach every different form of slavery in the OT.

No assumptions needed. God feels that lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding are perfectly fine. But I doubt you do. This means your moral compass likely does not actually align with the Bible God's moral compass.

8th request... Why follow a God in which their moral compass does not align with your own?

God gave instructions about dealing with divorce yet clearly opposes divorce. I have never seen any Scripture encouraging believers to buy or sell slaves.

[POI]

God gave instructions about dealing with divorce yet clearly opposes divorce.

Yes, the Bible states God clearly opposes divorce because the Bible actually says God opposes divorce. Where the topic of slavery is concerned, the Bible remains silent. As I've stated prior, the Bible has no problem telling folks what God does not like. And slavery does not make the (does not like) list. And I would imagine you think slavery is worse than divorce. This means that the Bible is either 1) completely negligent on its position for slavery, by remaining silent on its position (or) 2) God is a-okay with slavery. Either way, tsk tsk....

I have never seen any Scripture encouraging believers to buy or sell slaves.

I have. A matter of fact, I mentioned it in the OP:

you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

9th request: Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?

[1213]

...Not all rules are created equal.

But, Bible doesn't say the "love your neighbor" is just about the people you like the most.

Do you agree or disagree to the Bible's given hierarchy?

God > Jesus > man > woman > Hebrew male slave > female/foreign/bred slave > livestock > inanimate object.

Where is that given?

I think the hierarchy is: God > Jesus > man > woman > nature.

[marke]

you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Leviticus 25
14 And if thou sell ought unto thy neighbour, or buyest ought of thy neighbour's hand, ye shall not oppress one another:
17 Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the Lord your God.

Whatever you buy or sell, ye shall not oppress one another. I agree with that command of God when dealing with others, whether slaves or free.

23 The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
24 And in all the land of your possession ye shall grant a redemption for the land.

God still owns the land of Palestine today that He gave the Jews the perpetual right of occupying.

39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:
40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile.
41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.
42 For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen.
43 Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.

God allows Jews to sell themselves into bondage but still commands that the bond slaves be treated humanely.

44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

God did allow the buying and selling of slaves of heathen nations, whether taken as prisoners of war, as prisoners of crime, as prisoners of deep poverty, or whatever.

47 And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:
48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:
49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.
50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.

Jews could sell themselves into slavery to the heathen as well. It seems the majority of slaves are enslaved for the purpose of survival from the ravages of poverty and starvation.

[POI]

I think the hierarchy is: God > Jesus > man > woman > nature.

In the case you provided, the one above has dominion over the one below. Your response demonstrates that not all rules are equal. I.E. The parent can whip the child, but the child cannot whip the parent. In this same regard, the master can whip the slave, but the slave cannot whip the master. The 'golden rule' does not apply equally to all in the sense that beating your child or your slave are both permissive by the Bible., but not the other way around.

[POI]

Does this mean you now concede that the Bible does actually grant permission to buy slaves? Nothing you offered below refutes my prior statement.

Whatever you buy or sell, ye shall not oppress one another. I agree with that command of God when dealing with others, whether slaves or free.

The verse you offered refers to land, not humans.

The given rules are also tribal. For instance, Leviticus 25:44-46 demonstrates this by telling the reader that the slave master is certainly not allowed to treat Israelites in the same way as the master can treat non-Israelites.

The area of the Bible you offered also states the following, which is yet another demonstration of tribalism:

14 "If you sell land to any of your own people or buy land from them, do not take advantage of each other. 15 You are to buy from your own people on the basis of the number of years since the Jubilee. (NIV)

God still owns the land of Palestine today that He gave the Jews the perpetual right of occupying.

And if you are not an Israelite, the Bible allows for a differing ruleset in slavery practices. And when Jesus later comes along, Jesus never rebukes the prior rules of his dad, even though Jesus has no problem telling folks what he does not like.

God allows Jews to sell themselves into bondage but still commands that the bond slaves be treated humanely.

I can see why a Jew might do so. The ruleset is completely different for them, versus the "non-Jew." It is both more-so voluntary and the treatment is also very different. However, if you are not an Israelite, then the rules differ, a lot. So much for God loving all of his human creation equally. It's almost as if the Israelites invented their own version of a God, just like the Hindus, and all the rest...

God did allow the buying and selling of slaves of heathen nations, whether taken as prisoners of war, as prisoners of crime, as prisoners of deep poverty, or whatever.

I agree with the part you stated in bold directly above. If you are not an Israelite male, both the OT God, as well as the NT Jesus, allow for all said slavery practices... (i.e.) a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding.

Jews could sell themselves into slavery to the heathen as well. It seems the majority of slaves are enslaved for the purpose of survival from the ravages of poverty and starvation.

1) The Bible could think of no better way to combat poverty/starvation?
2) you stated 'the majority' above. What about all the ones enslaved against their will, like the ones bred into it, or any others, who are outside the 'majority' for instance?

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10th request: Why follow a book where it's given moral compass does not align with your own?

[marke]

Does this mean you now concede that the Bible does actually grant permission to buy slaves? Nothing you offered below refutes my prior statement.

Whatever you buy or sell, ye shall not oppress one another. I agree with that command of God when dealing with others, whether slaves or free.

The verse you offered refers to land, not humans.

The given rules are also tribal. For instance, Leviticus 25:44-46 demonstrates this by telling the reader that the slave master is certainly not allowed to treat Israelites in the same way as the master can treat non-Israelites.

The area of the Bible you offered also states the following, which is yet another demonstration of tribalism:

14 "If you sell land to any of your own people or buy land from them, do not take advantage of each other. 15 You are to buy from your own people on the basis of the number of years since the Jubilee. (NIV)

God still owns the land of Palestine today that He gave the Jews the perpetual right of occupying.

And if you are not an Israelite, the Bible allows for a differing ruleset in slavery practices. And when Jesus later comes along, Jesus never rebukes the prior rules of his dad, even though Jesus has no problem telling folks what he does not like.

God allows Jews to sell themselves into bondage but still commands that the bond slaves be treated humanely.

I can see why a Jew might do so. The ruleset is completely different for them, versus the "non-Jew." It is both more-so voluntary and the treatment is also very different. However, if you are not an Israelite, then the rules differ, a lot. So much for God loving all of his human creation equally. It's almost as if the Israelites invented their own version of a God, just like the Hindus, and all the rest...

God did allow the buying and selling of slaves of heathen nations, whether taken as prisoners of war, as prisoners of crime, as prisoners of deep poverty, or whatever.

I agree with the part you stated in bold directly above. If you are not an Israelite male, both the OT God, as well as the NT Jesus, allow for all said slavery practices... (i.e.) a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding.

Jews could sell themselves into slavery to the heathen as well. It seems the majority of slaves are enslaved for the purpose of survival from the ravages of poverty and starvation.

1) The Bible could think of no better way to combat poverty/starvation?
2) you stated 'the majority' above. What about all the ones enslaved against their will, like the ones bred into it, or any others, who are outside the 'majority' for instance?

*****************************

10th request: Why follow a book where it's given moral compass does not align with your own?

For whatever reason God never gives any reason for anyone to believe He favors wealth over poverty.

[POI]

Does this mean you now concede that the Bible does actually grant permission to buy slaves? Nothing you offered below refutes my prior statement.

Whatever you buy or sell, ye shall not oppress one another. I agree with that command of God when dealing with others, whether slaves or free.

The verse you offered refers to land, not humans.

The given rules are also tribal. For instance, Leviticus 25:44-46 demonstrates this by telling the reader that the slave master is certainly not allowed to treat Israelites in the same way as the master can treat non-Israelites.

The area of the Bible you offered also states the following, which is yet another demonstration of tribalism:

14 "If you sell land to any of your own people or buy land from them, do not take advantage of each other. 15 You are to buy from your own people on the basis of the number of years since the Jubilee. (NIV)

God still owns the land of Palestine today that He gave the Jews the perpetual right of occupying.

And if you are not an Israelite, the Bible allows for a differing ruleset in slavery practices. And when Jesus later comes along, Jesus never rebukes the prior rules of his dad, even though Jesus has no problem telling folks what he does not like.

God allows Jews to sell themselves into bondage but still commands that the bond slaves be treated humanely.

I can see why a Jew might do so. The ruleset is completely different for them, versus the "non-Jew." It is both more-so voluntary and the treatment is also very different. However, if you are not an Israelite, then the rules differ, a lot. So much for God loving all of his human creation equally. It's almost as if the Israelites invented their own version of a God, just like the Hindus, and all the rest...

God did allow the buying and selling of slaves of heathen nations, whether taken as prisoners of war, as prisoners of crime, as prisoners of deep poverty, or whatever.

I agree with the part you stated in bold directly above. If you are not an Israelite male, both the OT God, as well as the NT Jesus, allow for all said slavery practices... (i.e.) a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding.

Jews could sell themselves into slavery to the heathen as well. It seems the majority of slaves are enslaved for the purpose of survival from the ravages of poverty and starvation.

1) The Bible could think of no better way to combat poverty/starvation?
2) you stated 'the majority' above. What about all the ones enslaved against their will, like the ones bred into it, or any others, who are outside the 'majority' for instance?

*****************************

10th request: Why follow a book where it's given moral compass does not align with your own?

For whatever reason God never gives any reason for anyone to believe He favors wealth over poverty.

This response, or lack there-of, is quite telling. Below is a recap of our discussion thus far:

* The Bible endorses/condones chattel slavery
* The Bible endorses/condones slave breeding
* The Bible grants permission to buy chattel slaves
* The Bible endorses/condones both a) chattel slavery and b) slave breeding as the best way(s) to combat poverty/starvation
* The Bible endorses/condones tribalism, just like other religion(s)

11th request: Why follow a book where it's given moral compass does not align with your own?

[servant1]

[Replying to POI in post #420]


I doubt it means the women and children were plunder-The gold and silver were plunder.