"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 "But if the servant declares, I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free, 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by benchwarmer »

1213 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 1:06 am
POI wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:47 am
1213 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:29 am Why do you think that means the law is not equal for all? I don't think it means the golden rule is not the same in all cases.
Because the law does not apply equally in both directions.
I disagree with that. Please explain why do you think golden rule does not apply equally?
I can't believe you actually have to ask that in a thread about slavery.

Do slave owners buy slaves? Well yes they do, it's right there in the Bible. Would a slave owner want to be bought as a slave? I highly doubt it.

Do slave owners want to be beaten by a rod as long as they don't die in a couple days? I highly doubt it.

It really is kind of laughable that you think your position is going to convince anyone that any kind of slavery (especially the kind portrayed in the Bible) is in any way 'good' or even 'acceptable'. The God of the Bible could have easily made an 11th commandment: You shall not own another human.

Jesus apparently came along and short circuited all the myriad of laws in the OT and basically said "treat others as you would like to be treated". This was much better, but still fell short. It should have at least stopped slavery, but clearly it did not.

A far superior rule would be "Treat others as they would like to be treated as long as you do no harm". Or words to that effect. The rule in the Bible leaves open the possibility to treat others poorly if you don't mind be treated poorly in some area. i.e. if I like fist fights, then I guess it's ok to engage in them with others because I like them and am just treating them as I would like to be treated.

In other words, the Bible gets it wrong and focuses on you. We should focus on others when it comes to how to treat others.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 1:06 am
POI wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:47 am
1213 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:29 am Why do you think that means the law is not equal for all? I don't think it means the golden rule is not the same in all cases.
Because the law does not apply equally in both directions.
I disagree with that. Please explain why do you think golden rule does not apply equally?
One of the subscribed tenets of the 'golden rule' is to be fair. Meaning, to consider whether you would still treat someone fairly if the roles were reversed. The rules for men differ from the rules for women. In some cases, the woman slave is also not allowed to ever go free, like some male slaves.

**************************************

The rules for a slave master differ from the rules for a slave.

Other subscribed tenets of the 'golden rule' include consideration of their position. What if the master was born into slavery and wanted to leave? The Bible states the bred slave belongs to the master.

The 'golden rule' also states to be a good friend, or to be forgiving, or to be compassionate, or to be helpful, or to be kind and respectful. Please explain how any of these tenets logically apply to a slave master, in relation to the condoned lifetime ownership of their assigned chattel slave(s)?

Some Christians, like you, want to argue for some special kind of 'slavery', as if there is a good kind. Well, this would be like sprinkling a bunch of sugar on a turd, as the term 'slave' is not considered a good term, period.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:30 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 1:06 am
POI wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:47 am
1213 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:29 am Why do you think that means the law is not equal for all? I don't think it means the golden rule is not the same in all cases.
Because the law does not apply equally in both directions.
I disagree with that. Please explain why do you think golden rule does not apply equally?
One of the subscribed tenets of the 'golden rule' is to be fair. Meaning, to consider whether you would still treat someone fairly if the roles were reversed. The rules for men differ from the rules for women. In some cases, the woman slave is also not allowed to ever go free, like some male slaves.
All beings are not the same, therefore being fair doesn't mean that everything should go the same way in all cases.

For example a child is different than adult. We don't treat children the same way as adults and that is because love takes into consideration the differences. Same is with men and women. There are differences. But if we go by the rule, love your neighbor as yourself, and your slave wants to god free, you let her go, because you would not want to be a slave against your will. However, before letting her go, I think it would also be good to tell the consequences. I believe many stayed slaves voluntarily, because they knew it would be worse to leave.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by 1213 »

benchwarmer wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:10 am Would a slave owner want to be bought as a slave? I highly doubt it.
If you would be held as slave in an evil nation that enslaves its people and treats them badly, would you not want to be bought by a Jew who would offer you a better life? I would think it is a good thing.

I think it is interesting that Jews were not allowed to sell and kidnap people, but they were allowed to buy. In my opinion buying is not the real problem, it is the selling and kidnapping. Bible tells, if one kidnaps someone, he deserves death.

Anyone who kidnaps someone and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Exod. 21:16
benchwarmer wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:10 amDo slave owners want to be beaten by a rod as long as they don't die in a couple days? I highly doubt it.
I agree, thus it should be that none of them do that.
benchwarmer wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:10 amA far superior rule would be "Treat others as they would like to be treated as long as you do no harm". Or words to that effect. The rule in the Bible leaves open the possibility to treat others poorly if you don't mind be treated poorly in some area. i.e. if I like fist fights, then I guess it's ok to engage in them with others because I like them and am just treating them as I would like to be treated.
Every rule can be understood in stupid and evil way. That is why we nowadays have countless number of laws and layers who each try to circumvent the laws and the intention of the law.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:22 am But if we go by the rule, love your neighbor as yourself, and your slave wants to god free, you let her go, because you would not want to be a slave against your will.
It is not up to her. The law states that it is up to the master. The law states that the females are not to go free, as the males can. The rule differs, in that some males can leave, but women, can't.
1213 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:22 am However, before letting her go, I think it would also be good to tell the consequences. I believe many stayed slaves voluntarily, because they knew it would be worse to leave.
This is the best solution the Bible some come up with? (i.e.) Remain a lifetime chattel slave for life, or possibly even worse?

**************************

You continue to sprinkle quite a bit of sugar on the turd. The turd represents slavery. There exists no 'good' kinds of slavery.
Last edited by POI on Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:22 am If you would be held as slave in an evil nation that enslaves its people and treats them badly, would you not want to be bought by a Jew who would offer you a better life? I would think it is a good thing.
Here you go again sugar-coating a turd. There are no 'good' kinds of 'slavery' any more than there exist 'good' kinds of turds one is instructed to eat.
1213 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:22 am I think it is interesting that Jews were not allowed to sell and kidnap people, but they were allowed to buy. In my opinion buying is not the real problem, it is the selling and kidnapping. Bible tells, if one kidnaps someone, he deserves death.
What I think is interesting is that the Bible condones/endorses both a) life chattel slavery and b) slave breeding. See the OP for more information.
1213 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:22 am I agree, thus it should be that none of them do that.
And yet, the Bible goes out of its way to grant complete impunity for beating one's slave anyways. Why? Because the Bible states the slave is their property. :approve:
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by servant1 »

[Replying to marke in post #440]

God hates the things you mentioned. His kingdom will be a cure all, of everything you mentioned, and so much more.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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servant1 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:28 pm [Replying to marke in post #440]

God hates the things you mentioned. His kingdom will be a cure all, of everything you mentioned, and so much more.
Does God condemn poverty? No. Does God condemn servitude? No. Does God condemn income inequality? No. Does God condemn inherited wealth? Np, Does God condemn destitution? No.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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marke wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:50 pm Does God condemn poverty? No. Does God condemn servitude? No. Does God condemn income inequality? No. Does God condemn inherited wealth? Np, Does God condemn destitution? No.
Does the Bible endorse/condone slavery? YES
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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POI wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:25 pm
marke wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:50 pm Does God condemn poverty? No. Does God condemn servitude? No. Does God condemn income inequality? No. Does God condemn inherited wealth? Np, Does God condemn destitution? No.
Does the Bible endorse/condone slavery? YES
I can see how people would be led to think God is evil and supports error and wickedness, but those people are wrong.

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