Comparing Genesis 1 with John 1

[placebofactor]

Let’s compare Genesis 1 with John 1:

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning... John 1:1, "In the beginning..."

In the beginning what? Genesis 1, God (Elohim!)”

John 1:1 "Was the Word (Jesus) And the Word was with God (the Holy Spirit)." If ‘Word’ (speaking of Jesus) is written in upper case, then God (theos) has to also be in upper case.

So, the beginning begins with the ‘Word’ = (Jesus) and the (Holy Spirit) who is moving “Upon the surface of the waters,” with, Job 26:13, “By his (God’s) Spirit he has garnished (adorned) the heavens;”

John 1:1, "And the Word was God." Who’s the Word? John 1:14, “And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.”

John 1: "The same (the Word) was in the beginning with God (the Holy Spirit)."

Genesis 1:1, ”In the beginning God,” the Hebrew here for God is Elohim referring to the Father, who sends his Son, and the Holy Spirit to create the heaven and earth.

John 1:3, "All things were made by Him (Jesus): and without Him was not anything made that was made."

John 1:4, "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 1:5, "And the light (God’s glory) shineth in darkness."

Genesis 1:2, "Darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God, declared, “Let there be light." Only light exposes the darkness and brings life to the world.

History has a beginning. Therefore, a logical inference can be drawn, ‘If there were nothing in the past, there would be nothing today. Hence, God is before.”

Unlike pagan myths, philosophies, and theories, the Scriptures give a simple, concise account of creation. Scriptures bear the stamp of truth and provide a just and elevated view of God.
The idea of the word “in” means, ‘at the present time.’ Specifically, “in” this hour, minute, and very moment. “in” is limited by the word “beginning.” Therefore, when God spoke His first words, time began.

The Hebrew for ‘beginning’ is re’shiyth, whereas the Greek is “arche,” which speaks of time as the beginning or commencement of time, of all things, from everlasting.
The beginning of the gospel dispensation.

The beginning of a Christian experience.

It sometimes speaks of persons, the first primus, as,

“The first and the last.”

“The beginning and the end.”

The word also speaks of dignity, the first place, power, or dominion. It gives the reader a sense of preeminence, precedence, or princedom. In the abstract refers to rulers, magistrates, princes, persons of influence and authority, or civil rulers. The beginning, or first power, speaks of the princes or chiefs among angels, demons, and the powers of the underworld.

“In” also gives the idea of the commencement or beginning of things as we know them. There have been attempts to take the word beginning to mean the everlasting or eternity past. Not so! The word brings the idea of a starting point to the table.

John wrote, “In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ).”

1 John 1, “That which was from the beginning, which we (the apostles) have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life (Jesus Christ).”

John 1:4, “In him (Jesus) was life;” Verse 14, and the “Word was made (became) flesh.”

John wrote that the apostles had heard and seen with their own eyes, looked upon, and handled the Lord Jesus, also called, 'the Word of God.'

The man Jesus presented Himself to us in our three higher senses: hearing, sight, and touch. To have handled is the proof of material reality. The Greek verb for “handled” means much more than to touch, to feel after, or to find.

This has been set up with the words, ‘see,’ or ‘seeing,’ used four times in the first three verses. Two different verbs for seeing are used. Horan (to see) and ‘theasthau;’ (to behold intelligently to signify what they were seeing.)

Translated, it would be, “The eternal Son who from eternity has entered time, we the apostles have not only handled as a material being, not only heard, not only seen with the physical eyes but have understood His meaning and significance.”

1 John 1:2-3, John writes, “For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness,”

This phrase is the heart of the verse. The verb ‘manifest’ in Greek indicates the fact of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. The apostles could not have heard, seen, or handled the Lord; neither could they have had any knowledge of Christ’s eternal life with the Father unless the Father was willing to reveal this mystery to them in the person of his Son and the commission of the Holy Spirit. The person of Jesus was the mystery revealed.

1 Timothy 3:16, K.J.B. “God manifest in the flesh.” Also, Matthew 1:23 says, “And they shall call the (Jesus) name, Immanuel, God with us.”

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #16]
I agree with everything you said. I think the trinity doctrine is an outright abomination.

Wow, you just condemned millions and millions of Christians who have gone before us. When you use the word "abomination" you're talking about people who hate the Jews, hate Christians, and hate God.


There are sinister reasons why Trinitarians won't come clean on this issue.

What for example is a "sinister reason?"

Most of them KNOW trinity is bogus false doctrine.

No, most of the cults think its false. Muslims, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Atheists, etc. Not very good company, is it?

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Here's your problem, you're using a corrupt Bible. One that is based on the 3 % corrupted manuscripts.

The teaching of the trinity IS an abomination. That, in fact, is being too nice about it. It is disgusting. People who reject the trinity have no hatred toward anyone. Jehovah's Witnesses love their fellow man and would do nothing to harm them, unlike other religions such as the Mormons and the Muslims, etc. Kindly don't put us in the same category.

And we used the King James Bible for almost 100 years before the so-called "corrupt Bible" came into our possession. So our beliefs are not according to our "corrupt Bible." It is in accordance with our beliefs that we had already, gotten from the study of the KJV.

[Capbook]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #16]
I agree with everything you said. I think the trinity doctrine is an outright abomination.

Wow, you just condemned millions and millions of Christians who have gone before us. When you use the word "abomination" you're talking about people who hate the Jews, hate Christians, and hate God.


There are sinister reasons why Trinitarians won't come clean on this issue.

What for example is a "sinister reason?"

Most of them KNOW trinity is bogus false doctrine.

No, most of the cults think its false. Muslims, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Atheists, etc. Not very good company, is it?

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Here's your problem, you're using a corrupt Bible. One that is based on the 3 % corrupted manuscripts.

The teaching of the trinity IS an abomination.

May I know where in the word of God that says that?
Or it is just man's word.

[manmade]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #20]
Right...it's never YOU that made a mistake. This time it's the corrupt bible.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #20]
Right...it's never YOU that made a mistake. This time it's the corrupt bible.

Onewithhim, please tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611. You claim the King James is corrupt. In claiming the K.J.B. is corrupt, you have JUDGED millions and millions to spiritual death. Why? Because we understand Jesus Christ to be God to the glory of his Father. We also believe in the person of the Holy Spirit; and HE is the voice of the Father and the Son who teaches believers.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, but IT is the breath of the Father, so they claim. Personally, from my 40 years of experience and relationships with Jehovah's Witnesses who I honestly like as people, you have all been hood-winked into using a corrupt Bible, listening to voices of darkness, and being led by fallen spirits.

Let me repeat my question: "Tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #20]
Right...it's never YOU that made a mistake. This time it's the corrupt bible.

Onewithhim, please tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611. You claim the King James is corrupt. In claiming the K.J.B. is corrupt, you have JUDGED millions and millions to spiritual death. Why? Because we understand Jesus Christ to be God to the glory of his Father. We also believe in the person of the Holy Spirit; and HE is the voice of the Father and the Son who teaches believers.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, but IT is the breath of the Father, so they claim. Personally, from my 40 years of experience and relationships with Jehovah's Witnesses who I honestly like as people, you have all been hood-winked into using a corrupt Bible, listening to voices of darkness, and being led by fallen spirits.

Let me repeat my question: "Tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611?

I don't know the names of the versions before 1611. But surely you can't blame our, as you feel, "corrupt Bible" for leading us astray, because we used the King James Bible from 1889 up to around 1950 when the NWT was available. How did the NWT corrupt us when it wasn't even available before 1950?

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #20]
Right...it's never YOU that made a mistake. This time it's the corrupt bible.

Onewithhim, please tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611. You claim the King James is corrupt. In claiming the K.J.B. is corrupt, you have JUDGED millions and millions to spiritual death. Why? Because we understand Jesus Christ to be God to the glory of his Father. We also believe in the person of the Holy Spirit; and HE is the voice of the Father and the Son who teaches believers.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, but IT is the breath of the Father, so they claim. Personally, from my 40 years of experience and relationships with Jehovah's Witnesses who I honestly like as people, you have all been hood-winked into using a corrupt Bible, listening to voices of darkness, and being led by fallen spirits.

Let me repeat my question: "Tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611?

I don't know the names of the versions before 1611. But surely you can't blame our, as you feel, "corrupt Bible" for leading us astray, because we used the King James Bible from 1889 up to around 1950 when the NWT was available. How did the NWT corrupt us when it wasn't even available before 1950?

Did you or your earlier co-believers not noticed that the KJB John 1:1 did not have the "a" compare to the NWT?
And many more translations even original Greeks does not have that.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #20]
Right...it's never YOU that made a mistake. This time it's the corrupt bible.

Onewithhim, please tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611. You claim the King James is corrupt. In claiming the K.J.B. is corrupt, you have JUDGED millions and millions to spiritual death. Why? Because we understand Jesus Christ to be God to the glory of his Father. We also believe in the person of the Holy Spirit; and HE is the voice of the Father and the Son who teaches believers.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, but IT is the breath of the Father, so they claim. Personally, from my 40 years of experience and relationships with Jehovah's Witnesses who I honestly like as people, you have all been hood-winked into using a corrupt Bible, listening to voices of darkness, and being led by fallen spirits.

Let me repeat my question: "Tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611?

I don't know the names of the versions before 1611. But surely you can't blame our, as you feel, "corrupt Bible" for leading us astray, because we used the King James Bible from 1889 up to around 1950 when the NWT was available. How did the NWT corrupt us when it wasn't even available before 1950?

Did you or your earlier co-believers not noticed that the KJB John 1:1 did not have the "a" compare to the NWT?
And many more translations even original Greeks does not have that.

It is because the translators who did not place an "a" in front of the last "god" were not following the rules of translating from Greek to English. A "the" is placed before the first God mentioned (and the word was with God) and that signifies the one true God, the Almighty. The last "god" has no article in Greek and therefore is not "the" God, the Almighty. Look at the Greek and you can see the Greek for "the" in front of the first God. "The" in Greek looks like tov. You can see it before the first mention of God. There is no "tov" in front of the last God. So "and god was the word" would have no article like tov. It's as plain as day. So it would all read: "the word was with the God and the word was god." The last "god" wasn't given an article to show that this god was the God, so a translator must insert an "a" before it, to produce a sensible sentence, presenting what the writer meant.

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #20]
Right...it's never YOU that made a mistake. This time it's the corrupt bible.

Onewithhim, please tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611. You claim the King James is corrupt. In claiming the K.J.B. is corrupt, you have JUDGED millions and millions to spiritual death. Why? Because we understand Jesus Christ to be God to the glory of his Father. We also believe in the person of the Holy Spirit; and HE is the voice of the Father and the Son who teaches believers.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, but IT is the breath of the Father, so they claim. Personally, from my 40 years of experience and relationships with Jehovah's Witnesses who I honestly like as people, you have all been hood-winked into using a corrupt Bible, listening to voices of darkness, and being led by fallen spirits.

Let me repeat my question: "Tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611?

I don't know the names of the versions before 1611. But surely you can't blame our, as you feel, "corrupt Bible" for leading us astray, because we used the King James Bible from 1889 up to around 1950 when the NWT was available. How did the NWT corrupt us when it wasn't even available before 1950?

Did you or your earlier co-believers not noticed that the KJB John 1:1 did not have the "a" compare to the NWT?
And many more translations even original Greeks does not have that.

It is because the translators who did not place an "a" in front of the last "god" were not following the rules of translating from Greek to English. A "the" is placed before the first God mentioned (and the word was with God) and that signifies the one true God, the Almighty. The last "god" has no article in Greek and therefore is not "the" God, the Almighty. Look at the Greek and you can see the Greek for "the" in front of the first God. "The" in Greek looks like tov. You can see it before the first mention of God. There is no "tov" in front of the last God. So "and god was the word" would have no article like tov. It's as plain as day. So it would all read: "the word was with the God and the word was god." The last "god" wasn't given an article to show that this god was the God, so a translator must insert an "a" before it, to produce a sensible sentence, presenting what the writer meant.

I think the one who put an "a" in front of the last "God" is the one not following the rules of translating from Greek to English.
And I can give you plenty of translations that does not put that "a" there.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #20]
Right...it's never YOU that made a mistake. This time it's the corrupt bible.

Onewithhim, please tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611. You claim the King James is corrupt. In claiming the K.J.B. is corrupt, you have JUDGED millions and millions to spiritual death. Why? Because we understand Jesus Christ to be God to the glory of his Father. We also believe in the person of the Holy Spirit; and HE is the voice of the Father and the Son who teaches believers.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, but IT is the breath of the Father, so they claim. Personally, from my 40 years of experience and relationships with Jehovah's Witnesses who I honestly like as people, you have all been hood-winked into using a corrupt Bible, listening to voices of darkness, and being led by fallen spirits.

Let me repeat my question: "Tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611?

I don't know the names of the versions before 1611. But surely you can't blame our, as you feel, "corrupt Bible" for leading us astray, because we used the King James Bible from 1889 up to around 1950 when the NWT was available. How did the NWT corrupt us when it wasn't even available before 1950?

The Witnesses were feeding off of Taze Russell until his death. Your teachings are his teachings. He was rejected back then, and your teachings are still rejected by 99% of the Christian community.

Let me answer the question for you: Before the K.J.B., there were very few of Tindal's English Bibles around. The Catholics would send their bishops out to confiscate any that were found, and then they burned them. When they caught up with Tindel, and those who helped him, they were all murdered. This was in the 16th century. Wycliff in the 14th century suffered the same fate for writing the Bible in English, death.

So, the only available Bible before the K.K.B. was the Latin Vulgate. They were written in Latin, with no English versions. Only bishops were allowed to have them, and for the most part, they were chained to their pews. If anyone was caught with one, it was jail or death.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #20]
Right...it's never YOU that made a mistake. This time it's the corrupt bible.

Onewithhim, please tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611. You claim the King James is corrupt. In claiming the K.J.B. is corrupt, you have JUDGED millions and millions to spiritual death. Why? Because we understand Jesus Christ to be God to the glory of his Father. We also believe in the person of the Holy Spirit; and HE is the voice of the Father and the Son who teaches believers.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, but IT is the breath of the Father, so they claim. Personally, from my 40 years of experience and relationships with Jehovah's Witnesses who I honestly like as people, you have all been hood-winked into using a corrupt Bible, listening to voices of darkness, and being led by fallen spirits.

Let me repeat my question: "Tell me what Bible your Arian followers used before 1611?

I don't know the names of the versions before 1611. But surely you can't blame our, as you feel, "corrupt Bible" for leading us astray, because we used the King James Bible from 1889 up to around 1950 when the NWT was available. How did the NWT corrupt us when it wasn't even available before 1950?

The Witnesses were feeding off of Taze Russell until his death. Your teachings are his teachings. He was rejected back then, and your teachings are still rejected by 99% of the Christian community.

Let me answer the question for you: Before the K.J.B., there were very few of Tindal's English Bibles around. The Catholics would send their bishops out to confiscate any that were found, and then they burned them. When they caught up with Tindel, and those who helped him, they were all murdered. This was in the 16th century. Wycliff in the 14th century suffered the same fate for writing the Bible in English, death.

So, the only available Bible before the K.K.B. was the Latin Vulgate. They were written in Latin, with no English versions. Only bishops were allowed to have them, and for the most part, they were chained to their pews. If anyone was caught with one, it was jail or death.

Yes I knew this. So your point is...?

The teachings we accepted before Russell died were the teachings of the Bible. He told it like it was. No immortality of the soul, no Trinity, no hell-fire, and so on. And we determined that using the KJV.