"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 "But if the servant declares, I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free, 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #541

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 5:22 am
marke wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:49 pm The Bible does not contain any improper moral standards in spoite of the assumed errors imagined by poor Bible students.
This means you too are okay with slave masters owning lifetime chattel slaves, as well as breeding them for new lifetime chattel slaves?

No, I oppose slavery in the US and commend Christians for fighting the Southern Democrats in the Civil War to put an end to their violations of human rights.
marke wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:49 pm Modern Christians who understood the Bible's opposition to modern slavery in America provided the backbone of the abolitionist movement that resulted in the freeing of the slaves under the Christian President Abraham Lincoln.
Incorrect. Jesus understood better than any human, right? And yet, Jesus expressed absolutely no abolition process(es) for slavery. What humans later did was in opposition to Biblical standards, as the Bible never mentions abolition for chattel slavery and slave breeding. Why? Jesus had absolutely no problem telling folks what is wrong. Jesus would also know that slavery is a large human topic. Jesus remained silent against abolition because Jesus dd not oppose slavery.


Regardless of what some professing Christians may have believed, many Bible-believing Christians fought slavery in the US for hundreds of years before joining the Christian President to fight to the death in the Civil War to put an end to the barbaric practice.

marke wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:49 pm I cannot explain how modern Americans try to justify slavery in America by applying OT rules, laws, and standards governing ancient barbarians to modern times.
The point here being, is that slavery between these two eras have little differences. They both sucked! The Bible could have expressed abolition and chose not to. Which means slavery is a-okay from the Bible's position/perspective. :approve:

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #542

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marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:05 pm No, I oppose slavery in the US and commend Christians for fighting the Southern Democrats in the Civil War to put an end to their violations of human rights.
Then you, along with some of these folk's morals in the states, do not align with the tenets given in the Bible. The Bible does not oppose/condemn lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding.
marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:05 pm Regardless of what some professing Christians may have believed, many Bible-believing Christians fought slavery in the US for hundreds of years before joining the Christian President to fight to the death in the Civil War to put an end to the barbaric practice.
That's great and all, but the Bible does not oppose/condemn lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. In conclusion, most folks today outwardly object to such practices, while the Bible itself instead condones or accepts such practices.

Thus, you are following a book which does not align with your own moral standards.

*****************************

There exists no super special kind of slavery, as the Bible permits. Such slaves could be beaten with impunity, treated as property, and kept for life, just like any other slave from the South or elsewhere. If you want to split hairs, sure, you could not murder them right away. However, as I've told others here, such Biblical laws were setup to favor the slave master. Case/point, the law does not state it is an 'eye for an eye' here. Meaning, if the master knocks out the slave's eye(s), the slave can go free, but, the master's eye is not to be removed. I reckon this clause was in place to justify a way for the master to release deadbeat slaves who either refuse to work, or were too injured, or were too old to work any longer. It is a loophole law which permits a 'legal' way for slave masters to release the slaves in which they no longer wish to keep, because they no longer serve the master's purpose(s).

The ones who used the Bible to justify slavery practices were more-so on point, and in line with what the Bible permits and condones. America is actually moving away from the Bible's wishes, by abolishing such practices.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #543

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 3:54 pm
marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:05 pm No, I oppose slavery in the US and commend Christians for fighting the Southern Democrats in the Civil War to put an end to their violations of human rights.
Then you, along with some of these folk's morals in the states, do not align with the tenets given in the Bible. The Bible does not oppose/condemn lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding.

I never got the impression that God supported Christian ownership of slaves in America.
marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:05 pm Regardless of what some professing Christians may have believed, many Bible-believing Christians fought slavery in the US for hundreds of years before joining the Christian President to fight to the death in the Civil War to put an end to the barbaric practice.
That's great and all, but the Bible does not oppose/condemn lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. In conclusion, most folks today outwardly object to such practices, while the Bible itself instead condones or accepts such practices.

Thus, you are following a book which does not align with your own moral standards.

If you oppose slavery and believe God supports slavery in America then it is you whose moral standards conflict with the Bible. I do not believe God has ever instructed Christians to own slaves.

*****************************

There exists no super special kind of slavery, as the Bible permits. Such slaves could be beaten with impunity, treated as property, and kept for life, just like any other slave from the South or elsewhere. If you want to split hairs, sure, you could not murder them right away. However, as I've told others here, such Biblical laws were setup to favor the slave master. Case/point, the law does not state it is an 'eye for an eye' here. Meaning, if the master knocks out the slave's eye(s), the slave can go free, but, the master's eye is not to be removed. I reckon this clause was in place to justify a way for the master to release deadbeat slaves who either refuse to work, or were too injured, or were too old to work any longer. It is a loophole law which permits a 'legal' way for slave masters to release the slaves in which they no longer wish to keep, because they no longer serve the master's purpose(s).

The ones who used the Bible to justify slavery practices were more-so on point, and in line with what the Bible permits and condones. America is actually moving away from the Bible's wishes, by abolishing such practices.
Christian abolitionists in America did not believe God justified slavery in America although other Christians did.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #544

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:58 pm I never got the impression that God supported Christian ownership of slaves in America.
You have no support for this position, other than blind faith alone. The Bible condones and supports lifetime chattel slavery, period. The case was made in the original post.
marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:58 pm If you oppose slavery and believe God supports slavery in America then it is you whose moral standards conflict with the Bible. I do not believe God has ever instructed Christians to own slaves.
To the bold...

44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:58 pm Christian abolitionists in America did not believe God justified slavery in America although other Christians did.
The Bible condones slavery. The Bible does not express abolition for slavery. Hence, the ones who condone slavery practices are more in line with the Bible's morals regarding this topic.

You do not agree with the Bible regarding slavery practices. Good for you! But the question remains... Why continue following this book anyways?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #545

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 5:48 am
1213 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 12:55 am
benchwarmer wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 7:21 pm ...We are discussing the culture during the time various Bible documents were written. A time when buying slaves was 'normal'....
Yes, and in that era buying could have been good for the slave, in comparison to what would happen to the person, if he would not be sold.
The best solution the Bible can offer is lifetime chattel slavery?
Best solution the Bible offer is to be part of God's kingdom.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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1213 wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:42 am Best solution the Bible offer is to be part of God's kingdom.
And to be part of 'God's kingdom', you must agree that the best solution the Bible can offer for some, is sometimes lifetime chattel slavery :approve:
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #547

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 9:34 pm
marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:58 pm I never got the impression that God supported Christian ownership of slaves in America.
You have no support for this position, other than blind faith alone. The Bible condones and supports lifetime chattel slavery, period. The case was made in the original post.

AI
In 1787 the Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade was formed, with 9 of the 12 founder members being Quakers. During the same year, William Wilberforce was persuaded to take up their cause; as an MP, Wilberforce was able to introduce a bill to abolish the slave trade.

marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:58 pm If you oppose slavery and believe God supports slavery in America then it is you whose moral standards conflict with the Bible. I do not believe God has ever instructed Christians to own slaves.
To the bold...

44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:58 pm Christian abolitionists in America did not believe God justified slavery in America although other Christians did.
The Bible condones slavery. The Bible does not express abolition for slavery. Hence, the ones who condone slavery practices are more in line with the Bible's morals regarding this topic.

You are right. I do not agree with those who believe God condoned and/or encouraged slavery in America.

You do not agree with the Bible regarding slavery practices. Good for you! But the question remains... Why continue following this book anyways?

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #548

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marke wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:27 pm In 1787 the Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade was formed, with 9 of the 12 founder members being Quakers. During the same year, William Wilberforce was persuaded to take up their cause; as an MP, Wilberforce was able to introduce a bill to abolish the slave trade.
Yes, some folks don't condone slavery, including you. However, the Bible does condone both chattel slavery and slave breeding. Thus, I ask again and again and again, why follow a book which does not align with your own moral standards?
marke wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:27 pm Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Not sure why you cherrypicked this passage? You stated "I do not believe God has ever instructed Christians to own slaves". The Bible DOES instruct on owning slaves, and exactly how to own slave and make them the master's property for life.
marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:58 pm You are right. I do not agree with those who believe God condoned and/or encouraged slavery in America.
Then you disagree with the Bible here. Thus, why do you follow the Bible?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #549

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 5:58 pm
marke wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:27 pm In 1787 the Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade was formed, with 9 of the 12 founder members being Quakers. During the same year, William Wilberforce was persuaded to take up their cause; as an MP, Wilberforce was able to introduce a bill to abolish the slave trade.
Yes, some folks don't condone slavery, including you. However, the Bible does condone both chattel slavery and slave breeding. Thus, I ask again and again and again, why follow a book which does not align with your own moral standards?

Just because so many professing Christians and confessing unbelievers refuse to believe God never encouraged slave trade or ownership among Christians doe not mean the unbelievers are right and the Christians are wrong.
marke wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:27 pm Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Not sure why you cherrypicked this passage? You stated "I do not believe God has ever instructed Christians to own slaves". The Bible DOES instruct on owning slaves, and exactly how to own slave and make them the master's property for life.

If you want to live under the OT law and refuse to reject OT laws, ordinances, policies and the like for freedom in Jesus then you will not likely ever enter into a saving knowledge of the truth.
marke wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:58 pm You are right. I do not agree with those who believe God condoned and/or encouraged slavery in America.
Then you disagree with the Bible here. Thus, why do you follow the Bible?

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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marke wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 9:01 pm Just because so many professing Christians and confessing unbelievers refuse to believe God never encouraged slave trade or ownership among Christians doe not mean the unbelievers are right and the Christians are wrong.
Yes, it does. The Bible condones slavery and does not condemn slavery. Hence, you are wrong. So why follow a book which condones an act in which you despise?
marke wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 9:01 pm If you want to live under the OT law and refuse to reject OT laws, ordinances, policies and the like for freedom in Jesus then you will not likely ever enter into a saving knowledge of the truth.
Yet again, if the NT either a) denounced slavery altogether, or b) remained silent on the topic, you might have some kind of a point. But instead, you have made absolutely no point. The OT condones slavery, and the NT reinforces slavery. So why follow a book which condones an act in which you despise?
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