Do patterns of phylogenesis show evolution?

[Difflugia]

Question for debate: Are the patterns seen in molecular phylogenies sufficient to show that biological evolution occurred?

For reference and easier Googling, the science of generating evolutionary trees is known as cladistics or phylogenetic systematics. Using DNA sequence data to generate the trees is molecular phylogeny.

The standard of evidence I'll be discussing is reasonable doubt. Even that's pretty broad, but if your argument hinges on "possible," you should be able to at least quantify that.

I've generated phylogenies using online tools previously and discussed them in this post. I tried to start a tutorial in this thread. If someone wants to discuss how to actually use the tools and data, feel free to ask questions in the tutorial thread and I'll pick it back up.

This debate question is a response to this comment.

[marke]

If evolution was true we would all be 7 feet tall, slim, attractive and supremely intelligent.

The posts on this forum proves that evolution is Satan's joke.

Marke: Like so many other ideas dreamed up by the left, the assumption that humans emerged from initial black-African human-apes and are steadily getting smarter is disproven by the clear fact that educated democrats in the US are getting stupider.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #1]

There has never been a sinlge verifiable example of evolution discovered.

That populations of animals do change over time is in fact a fact and this is evolution and has been observed.
You only deny this, which is not impressive in a debate setting.

Obviously lots of creatures have been bred out to the limits of their genes - especially dogs.

This is natural selection and can be a mechanism that drives the evolution of animals. Thanks for pointing out that mechanism and real world examples of how it causes changes.

But dogs is always dogs and other dogs recognise them as dogs and if mated will produce something similar to either parent - or perhaps to a lucky mongrel ten generations back on either one's side.

Yes, dogs produce dogs. If a dog gave birth to something that wasn't a dog, the theory of evolution would be proven false and would need to be abandoned for a better explanation. It doesn't sound like you were even aware of this. Have you studied much about evolution and the theory that currently best explains the fact?

Difflugs has obviously chosen to be a slave to Satan and won't know his error until Jesus returns to destroy him.

What you claim is in fact not obvious. It's actually pretty strange, but since you provided nothing but an empty claim, it doesn't deserve a debate response.

[EYR]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #542]

Quote: savant: a person who has an exceptional aptitude in one particular field, such as music or mathematics, despite having significant impairment in other areas of intellectual or social functioning.

[Jose Fly]

Marke: Every purported 'scientific' claim made by evolutionists in the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial was later roundly refuted by better understandings of science. Likewise, every 'scientific' claim made by global warming prophets has been thoroughly debunked as well. Furthermore, every claim made by experts and government-supported witnesses who claimed the Covid-19 virus emerged from a wet market and not from a lab has also been thoroughly debunked. We could go on listing 'scientific' narratives that were thoroughly debunked after closer investigations.

Everything ever written in any Bible has been refuted.

Once again, anyone can go online and say anything, but that doesn't make it true. Do you not understand that?

[Jose Fly]

There has never been a sinlge verifiable example of evolution discovered.

Demonstrably false.

https://www.pnas.org/action/doSearch?Al ... +evolution

Now the only question is whether or not you care about truth and accuracy.

[EYR]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #545]
Yoiu quote: Experimental evolution of multicellularity
Multicellularity was one of the most significant innovations in the history of life, but its initial evolution remains poorly understood. Using experimental evolution, we show that key steps in this transition could have occurred..'

Have you ever wondered what that 'could have' means?

Nothing has ever evolved.

[Jose Fly]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #545]
Yoiu quote: Experimental evolution of multicellularity
Multicellularity was one of the most significant innovations in the history of life, but its initial evolution remains poorly understood. Using experimental evolution, we show that key steps in this transition could have occurred..'

Have you ever wondered what that 'could have' means?

Nothing has ever evolved.

First of all, you're not paying attention to what I posted. It was a link to hundreds of published papers documenting the observed evolution of various things, thereby demonstrating your claim that nothing has evolved to be false.

Second, the specific paper about the experimental evolution of multicellularity described what they observed...

We observed the rapid evolution of clustering genotypes that display a novel multicellular life history characterized by reproduction via multicellular propagules, a juvenile phase, and determinate growth. The multicellular clusters are uniclonal, minimizing within-cluster genetic conflicts of interest. Simple among-cell division of labor rapidly evolved. Early multicellular strains were composed of physiologically similar cells, but these subsequently evolved higher rates of programmed cell death (apoptosis), an adaptation that increases propagule production. These results show that key aspects of multicellular complexity, a subject of central importance to biology, can readily evolve from unicellular eukaryotes.

Pay better attention next time.

[EYR]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #547]

but these subsequently evolved higher rates of programmed cell death (apoptosis),


pay attention to what you post?

[marke]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #1]

There has never been a sinlge verifiable example of evolution discovered.

That populations of animals do change over time is in fact a fact and this is evolution and has been observed.
You only deny this, which is not impressive in a debate setting.

Marke: I know species diversify but I also know they do not morph into other totally different species like dogs evolving into turtles or any of so many other preposterous types of Darwinian evolution nonsense.

Obviously lots of creatures have been bred out to the limits of their genes - especially dogs.

This is natural selection and can be a mechanism that drives the evolution of animals. Thanks for pointing out that mechanism and real world examples of how it causes changes.

Marke: This 'might' evolve or that 'may' contribute to evolution but no Darwinian macroevolution has ever been observed like birds evolving into dinosaurs or apes evolving into secular university professors.

But dogs is always dogs and other dogs recognise them as dogs and if mated will produce something similar to either parent - or perhaps to a lucky mongrel ten generations back on either one's side.

Yes, dogs produce dogs. If a dog gave birth to something that wasn't a dog, the theory of evolution would be proven false and would need to be abandoned for a better explanation. It doesn't sound like you were even aware of this. Have you studied much about evolution and the theory that currently best explains the fact?

Difflugs has obviously chosen to be a slave to Satan and won't know his error until Jesus returns to destroy him.

What you claim is in fact not obvious. It's actually pretty strange, but since you provided nothing but an empty claim, it doesn't deserve a debate response.

[marke]

Marke: Every purported 'scientific' claim made by evolutionists in the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial was later roundly refuted by better understandings of science. Likewise, every 'scientific' claim made by global warming prophets has been thoroughly debunked as well. Furthermore, every claim made by experts and government-supported witnesses who claimed the Covid-19 virus emerged from a wet market and not from a lab has also been thoroughly debunked. We could go on listing 'scientific' narratives that were thoroughly debunked after closer investigations.

Everything ever written in any Bible has been refuted.

Marke: That is utterly ridiculous lying nonsense.

Once again, anyone can go online and say anything, but that doesn't make it true. Do you not understand that?