"Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak."

[Athetotheist]

What are we to make of this?




Do they not realize that they're making Jesus out to be a liar?

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."
(Matthew 24:35)

"He that loveth Me not, keepeth not My sayings. And the Word which you hear is not Mine, but the Fathers who sent Me."
(John 14:24)

[The Barbarian]

The untested socialism experiment in the early church failed and was never intended to be a blueprint for national governments.

You have this right. Socialism has only succeeded in the context of religious communities. And only then as long as the community remained faithful to their faith. It's the Christian way, as His first followers lived it. Since then we've rarely lived up to it. But there have been exceptions.

Socialism in the sense of the state owning everything, has never worked.

Marke: I am not aware of any religious or secular governing body practicing Marxism that ever fared better than a competitive free market environment.

Socialism is not Marxism, which is sort of a socialist heresy. But examples of religious socialism that were highly successful include the Amana Colonies and the Oneida community. Among others.Turns out, religious commitment can make socialism work. But only so long as the community adheres to the faith. Eventually, (maybe after a century or so) commitment usually falters and economic selfishness takes over.

The beauty of capitalism is that it can work even in a society of selfish and greedy people, so long as no one entity can significantly affect the market. Unfortunately, as Adam Smith observed, that is precisely what businessmen seek to do in a totally unfettered market. Hence the fact that societies with regulated capitalism are more prosperous than other societies.

[marke]

At some point, you need to come to terms with the reality. Even Trump's own people acknowledged the fact that the Russian government did everything possible to help Trump, and there was collusion with the Trump campaign.

In spite of all the talk and testimony of conflicting witnesses...

And therein lies the problem. If you feel the need to ignore evidence, that's a pretty good tip in itself, isn't it?

Marke: Here is evidence that cannot be refuted:

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com ... 23596.html

Hidden Over 2 Years: Dem Cyber-Firm's Sworn Testimony It Had No Proof of Russian Hack of DNC

[marke]

The untested socialism experiment in the early church failed and was never intended to be a blueprint for national governments.

You have this right. Socialism has only succeeded in the context of religious communities. And only then as long as the community remained faithful to their faith. It's the Christian way, as His first followers lived it. Since then we've rarely lived up to it. But there have been exceptions.

Socialism in the sense of the state owning everything, has never worked.

Marke: I am not aware of any religious or secular governing body practicing Marxism that ever fared better than a competitive free market environment.

Socialism is not Marxism, which is sort of a socialist heresy. But examples of religious socialism that were highly successful include the Amana Colonies and the Oneida community. Among others.Turns out, religious commitment can make socialism work. But only so long as the community adheres to the faith. Eventually, (maybe after a century or so) commitment usually falters and economic selfishness takes over.

The beauty of capitalism is that it can work even in a society of selfish and greedy people, so long as no one entity can significantly affect the market. Unfortunately, as Adam Smith observed, that is precisely what businessmen seek to do in a totally unfettered market. Hence the fact that societies with regulated capitalism are more prosperous than other societies.

Marke: If a government proposes socialism that has no hint of Marxism then there is a chance that such a novel approach to socialism might be worth examining.

[The Barbarian]

The untested socialism experiment in the early church failed and was never intended to be a blueprint for national governments.

You have this right. Socialism has only succeeded in the context of religious communities. And only then as long as the community remained faithful to their faith. It's the Christian way, as His first followers lived it. Since then we've rarely lived up to it. But there have been exceptions.

Socialism in the sense of the state owning everything, has never worked.

Marke: I am not aware of any religious or secular governing body practicing Marxism that ever fared better than a competitive free market environment.

Socialism is not Marxism, which is sort of a socialist heresy. But examples of religious socialism that were highly successful include the Amana Colonies and the Oneida community. Among others.Turns out, religious commitment can make socialism work. But only so long as the community adheres to the faith. Eventually, (maybe after a century or so) commitment usually falters and economic selfishness takes over.

The beauty of capitalism is that it can work even in a society of selfish and greedy people, so long as no one entity can significantly affect the market. Unfortunately, as Adam Smith observed, that is precisely what businessmen seek to do in a totally unfettered market. Hence the fact that societies with regulated capitalism are more prosperous than other societies.

Marke: If a government proposes socialism that has no hint of Marxism then there is a chance that such a novel approach to socialism might be worth examining.

Countries like Finland and Sweden have such economies, where free markets exist with some socialist features. Not surprisingly, those are prosperous nations with happy citizens. They managed to ameliorate the flaws of a market economy mentioned by Adam Smith, while retaining the efficiencies of such a system.

[The Barbarian]

At some point, you need to come to terms with the reality. Even Trump's own people acknowledged the fact that the Russian government did everything possible to help Trump, and there was collusion with the Trump campaign.

In spite of all the talk and testimony of conflicting witnesses...

And therein lies the problem. If you feel the need to ignore evidence, that's a pretty good tip in itself, isn't it?

Marke: Here is evidence that cannot be refuted:

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com ... 23596.html

Hidden Over 2 Years: Dem Cyber-Firm's Sworn Testimony It Had No Proof of Russian Hack of DNC

ASPEN, Colorado Senior U.S. national security officials tell NBC News they are confident that Russian intelligence agencies hacked the Democratic National Committee.

The open question, they say, is whether those same intelligence agencies directly leaked material to WikiLeaks, in what would seem to be an unprecedented effort to influence the U.S. election...One issue is whether hackers other than Russian spies infiltrated DNC servers.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ru ... al-n618936

From Donald Trump's Department of Justice:

Grand Jury Indicts 12 Russian Intelligence Officers for Hacking Offenses Related to the 2016 Election
https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr ... 6-election

[marke]

The untested socialism experiment in the early church failed and was never intended to be a blueprint for national governments.

You have this right. Socialism has only succeeded in the context of religious communities. And only then as long as the community remained faithful to their faith. It's the Christian way, as His first followers lived it. Since then we've rarely lived up to it. But there have been exceptions.

Socialism in the sense of the state owning everything, has never worked.

Marke: I am not aware of any religious or secular governing body practicing Marxism that ever fared better than a competitive free market environment.

Socialism is not Marxism, which is sort of a socialist heresy. But examples of religious socialism that were highly successful include the Amana Colonies and the Oneida community. Among others.Turns out, religious commitment can make socialism work. But only so long as the community adheres to the faith. Eventually, (maybe after a century or so) commitment usually falters and economic selfishness takes over.

The beauty of capitalism is that it can work even in a society of selfish and greedy people, so long as no one entity can significantly affect the market. Unfortunately, as Adam Smith observed, that is precisely what businessmen seek to do in a totally unfettered market. Hence the fact that societies with regulated capitalism are more prosperous than other societies.

Marke: If a government proposes socialism that has no hint of Marxism then there is a chance that such a novel approach to socialism might be worth examining.

Countries like Finland and Sweden have such economies, where free markets exist with some socialist features. Not surprisingly, those are prosperous nations with happy citizens. They managed to ameliorate the flaws of a market economy mentioned by Adam Smith, while retaining the efficiencies of such a system.

Marke: Let the Europeans enjoy whatever type of government they like but Bible-believing Christians in the US rarely favor Marxist-flavored socialism. Trump did not support Marxism or socialism and he was elected by a huge majority.

[The Barbarian]

Let the Europeans enjoy whatever type of government they like but Bible-believing Christians in the US rarely favor Marxist-flavored socialism. Trump did not support Marxism or socialism and he was elected by a huge majority.[/b]

Trump won 77,284,118 votes, or 49.8 percent of the votes cast for president.
https://www.cfr.org/article/2024-election-numbers

Not even half the voters voted for him. That doesn't seem like a "huge majority." It's a large minority. Only a minority have voted for Trump in each of his three runs for president.

Obama, for example, got over 53% to McCain's 46%. Biden beat Trump 51% to 47%. Bill Clinton beat Dole 49% to 40%. Those are substantial majorities.

And a surprising number of people in the U.S. when polled, favor some kind of European-style socialism...

Which would you prefer: the current health insurance system in the US in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some have no insurance, or a universal health insurance program in which everyone is covered under a system like Medicare that's run by the government and financed by taxpayers?

Sixty-two percent respond with universal coverage.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3076976/

[marke]

Let the Europeans enjoy whatever type of government they like but Bible-believing Christians in the US rarely favor Marxist-flavored socialism. Trump did not support Marxism or socialism and he was elected by a huge majority.[/b]

Trump won 77,284,118 votes, or 49.8 percent of the votes cast for president.
https://www.cfr.org/article/2024-election-numbers

Not even half the voters voted for him. That doesn't seem like a "huge majority." It's a large minority. Only a minority have voted for Trump in each of his three runs for president.

Obama, for example, got over 53% to McCain's 46%. Biden beat Trump 51% to 47%. Bill Clinton beat Dole 49% to 40%. Those are substantial majorities.

And a surprising number of people in the U.S. when polled, favor some kind of European-style socialism...

Which would you prefer: the current health insurance system in the US in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some have no insurance, or a universal health insurance program in which everyone is covered under a system like Medicare that's run by the government and financed by taxpayers?

Sixty-two percent respond with universal coverage.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3076976/

Marke: Since no serious in-depth investigations into widespread voter fraud were conducted we are still unable to rule out the possibility of widespread voter fraud in any of the last several elections. Nevertheless, Trump won and I thank God he is making serious efforts to bring common sense and honesty back to our government.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Barbarian in post #87]

Since no serious in-depth investigations into widespread voter fraud were conducted.....

Over sixty cases were filed and the widespread fraud claim was dismissed for lack of evidence.
https://campaignlegal.org/results-lawsu ... -elections

Trump won and I thank God he is making serious efforts to bring common sense and honesty back to our government.

I guess we'll see about that....

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/starli ... 025-02-27/

https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2025/ ... ay/403177/


Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1 Thessalonians 5:22

Being patriotic is one thing, but as a Christian you should mindfully avoid the idolatry of taking the word of any mortal man as infallible.

[The Barbarian]

If dozens of investigations and lawsuits were unable to find any evidence of widespread voter fraud, one must conclude that either the federal judiciary (including many judges appointed by Donald Trump) is completely involved in some grand conspiracy, or there wasn't an widespread voter fraud.