"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

Post #1

Post by POI »

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #621

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:27 pm Marke: Luke 6:31
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
This response is pure weak sauce. I already spoke to this at the bottom of the original post, as well as post 334, and many other posts. Look it up and we can go from there.

Further, you completely ignored everything else in post 619. If you do not respond to all my answers, as this is a debate arena, I will take the complete win and the checkmate,
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #622

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:40 pm
marke wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:27 pm Marke: Luke 6:31
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
This response is pure weak sauce. I already spoke to this at the bottom of the original post, as well as post 334, and many other posts. Look it up and we can go from there.

Further, you completely ignored everything else in post 619. If you do not respond to all my answers, as this is a debate arena, I will take the complete win and the checkmate,
Marke: Ignoring or rejecting my responses is not really the same thing as winning a debate.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #623

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 6:04 am
POI wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:40 pm
marke wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:27 pm Marke: Luke 6:31
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
This response is pure weak sauce. I already spoke to this at the bottom of the original post, as well as post 334, and many other posts. Look it up and we can go from there.

Further, you completely ignored everything else in post 619. If you do not respond to all my answers, as this is a debate arena, I will take the complete win and the checkmate,
Marke: Ignoring or rejecting my responses is not really the same thing as winning a debate.
Your last reply is either intellectually dishonest (or) unaware. Your last reply is not sound because, as I stated, I gave you the roadmap to let you know exactly where I already addresses your last response. And your last response was already addressed in the OP. If you fail to see this, then this is your problem. And in regard to 'ignoring' or 'rejecting' your responses, I addressed any/all of your responses in post 619. Failure to address my answer(s), and/or offer up sufficient rebuttal, simply means you immediately lose the debate/exchange. In which case, you need to logically reconcile the following conclusions:

1) The Bible was constructed from men alone.
2) The Bible condones actions you disagree with morally.

Which then begs the question (unanswered):

Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #624

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 1:05 pm
marke wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 6:04 am
POI wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:40 pm
marke wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:27 pm Marke: Luke 6:31
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
This response is pure weak sauce. I already spoke to this at the bottom of the original post, as well as post 334, and many other posts. Look it up and we can go from there.

Further, you completely ignored everything else in post 619. If you do not respond to all my answers, as this is a debate arena, I will take the complete win and the checkmate,
Marke: Ignoring or rejecting my responses is not really the same thing as winning a debate.
Your last reply is either intellectually dishonest (or) unaware. Your last reply is not sound because, as I stated, I gave you the roadmap to let you know exactly where I already addresses your last response. And your last response was already addressed in the OP. If you fail to see this, then this is your problem. And in regard to 'ignoring' or 'rejecting' your responses, I addressed any/all of your responses in post 619. Failure to address my answer(s), and/or offer up sufficient rebuttal, simply means you immediately lose the debate/exchange. In which case, you need to logically reconcile the following conclusions:

1) The Bible was constructed from men alone.

Marke: That is not true. God inspired selected men to write the Word of God as He directed.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #625

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 1:57 pm Marke: That is not true. God inspired selected men to write the Word of God as He directed.
At this point, the debate is over. Readers will see you have no substance for your position, and your position is backed by nothing more than blind faith alone.

Peace
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #626

Post by POI »

Based upon rigorous exchange, it is clear the Bible condones both 1) lifetime chattel slavery and 2) slave breeding. These two points look to go undisputed. Below are some interesting responses given, so far:

a) Apologists brought up the "golden rule."
b) Apologists brought up 'hardened hearts'.
c) Apologists brought up 'the erroring pen of scribes.'
d) Apologists brought up 'we are all slaves.'
e) Apologists brought up 'following Jesus disallows condoning such acts.'
f) Apologists brought up 'the NT no longer supports such acts.'
g) Apologists brought up 'the disallowance of kidnapping.'
h) Apologists brough up how 'Christians used the Bible to abolish slavery.'

And then there is the video, from post 561, which no apologist would/will seem to touch...

These are just some of the highlights, as I may have missed some other pushback.

The bottom line is, if you are a Bible believer, you are forced to comply with the condoning of such acts. If you disagree, then your own moral standards do not align with the Bible. Which then begs the question for Bible believers...

Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #627

Post by POI »

Topic bump....

Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #628

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 9:30 am Topic bump....

Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
Good question. Do you know anyone who does that?

Mandatory taxation is the same as slavery, why accept it, if one is against slavery?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #629

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1213 wrote: Sun Mar 23, 2025 5:39 am
POI wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 9:30 am Topic bump....

Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
Good question. Do you know anyone who does that?
Logic tells me this is you. The Christian must condone the act of humans owning other humans as chattel slave property for life, rather than to instead express complete abolition for such acts. You instead are glad most areas have now completely abolished such activities. And as I stated prior, it would be like a protestor in front of a 'Planned Parenthood" clinic who protests against abortion. Affiliates of the "Planned Parenthood" clinic condone abortion rather than condemning it. The Christian does not condone abortion. They condemn it.

Where chattel slavery practices are concerned, the Bible is not consistent. The Bible condones humans owning other humans as chattel slaves for life, rather than to condemn this practice. If you follow this book, you have (2) options:

1) Reject the book, because the book issues commands which do not align with your own moral compass --- where chattel slavery is concerned.
2) Continue in Christianity -- but a) pick and choose - cafeteria style (and/or) b) "rationalize" or perform "mental gymnastics" with parts of the Bible you morally disagree with.

Thus far, you demonstrate option 2).
1213 wrote: Sun Mar 23, 2025 5:39 am Mandatory taxation is the same as slavery, why accept it, if one is against slavery?
It is not the same, at all. See above.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #630

Post by Difflugia »

1213 wrote: Sun Mar 23, 2025 5:39 amMandatory taxation is the same as slavery
If your argument requires redefinition of common words, there's probably a subtle equivocation hidden in there somewhere. I'd bet if you look hard enough, you can find it.
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