JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1969]

Codex Sinacticus 4th century=Catholicism. 4 men translated it. There was no other supposed Christian religion at that point.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1967]


There are no originals left of the NT at least--4th century Catholicism translating made up the Greek lexicons that exist today. Very few minor fragments that are older remain. The Latin Vulgate and The Codex Sinacticus is what all translation is done by the protestant religions. Late 14th century( Wycliffe) the first protestant translation came out of the Latin Vulgate. The Latin Vulgate is a corrupted translation as is the Codex Sinacticus. Thus all protestant works are corrupted as well. Catholicism=2Thess 2:3--that is who's translating you put your eternal life into.
God fixed it here in these last days=The New world translation.

Please do a good research. You just post your own opinion without proof or link of your source.

The Codex Sinaiticus, a crucial ancient manuscript of the Christian Bible, is not a product of Catholic influence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+code ... s-wiz-serp

You promote your paraphrase translation, don't you know that NWT translators according to an article lack Greek credentials specially F. Franz.

It is reported that Frederick Franz, the primary translator of the NWT, had only twenty-one hours of formal classical Greek training at the University of Cincinnati[7] and only two hours of Biblical Greek or Koine Greek.[8] This information was provided in Frederick Franz’s 1911 autobiography in which he published his own college transcript. https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/q ... anslation/

I don't think that Frederick Franz was the "primary translator" of the NWT. I would have to see his book to be convinced. Can you present exactly what he says in his book that leads you to believe that he is the primary translator? That would be helpful, since I assume you already have seen what he wrote in his book.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1967]


There are no originals left of the NT at least--4th century Catholicism translating made up the Greek lexicons that exist today. Very few minor fragments that are older remain. The Latin Vulgate and The Codex Sinacticus is what all translation is done by the protestant religions. Late 14th century( Wycliffe) the first protestant translation came out of the Latin Vulgate. The Latin Vulgate is a corrupted translation as is the Codex Sinacticus. Thus all protestant works are corrupted as well. Catholicism=2Thess 2:3--that is who's translating you put your eternal life into.
God fixed it here in these last days=The New world translation.

Please do a good research. You just post your own opinion without proof or link of your source.

The Codex Sinaiticus, a crucial ancient manuscript of the Christian Bible, is not a product of Catholic influence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+code ... s-wiz-serp

You promote your paraphrase translation, don't you know that NWT translators according to an article lack Greek credentials specially F. Franz.

It is reported that Frederick Franz, the primary translator of the NWT, had only twenty-one hours of formal classical Greek training at the University of Cincinnati[7] and only two hours of Biblical Greek or Koine Greek.[8] This information was provided in Frederick Franz’s 1911 autobiography in which he published his own college transcript. https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/q ... anslation/

I don't think that Frederick Franz was the "primary translator" of the NWT. I would have to see his book to be convinced. Can you present exactly what he says in his book that leads you to believe that he is the primary translator? That would be helpful, since I assume you already have seen what he wrote in his book.

Did you not click the link?
The article said so.

[ledgeRAILz]

.
Please consider

Jesus is God in that he is a meditator between God and man

- he is both God Spiritually and man Physically

- he is the visible manifestation or " MORPH " of God - the image of the invisible God


Heb 1:1 Many ways, also various ways, long ago the God spoke to their fathers
:2 in their prophets unto these last of days, of these, he spoke to them in his son

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1967]


There are no originals left of the NT at least--4th century Catholicism translating made up the Greek lexicons that exist today. Very few minor fragments that are older remain. The Latin Vulgate and The Codex Sinacticus is what all translation is done by the protestant religions. Late 14th century( Wycliffe) the first protestant translation came out of the Latin Vulgate. The Latin Vulgate is a corrupted translation as is the Codex Sinacticus. Thus all protestant works are corrupted as well. Catholicism=2Thess 2:3--that is who's translating you put your eternal life into.
God fixed it here in these last days=The New world translation.

Please do a good research. You just post your own opinion without proof or link of your source.

The Codex Sinaiticus, a crucial ancient manuscript of the Christian Bible, is not a product of Catholic influence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+code ... s-wiz-serp

You promote your paraphrase translation, don't you know that NWT translators according to an article lack Greek credentials specially F. Franz.

It is reported that Frederick Franz, the primary translator of the NWT, had only twenty-one hours of formal classical Greek training at the University of Cincinnati[7] and only two hours of Biblical Greek or Koine Greek.[8] This information was provided in Frederick Franz’s 1911 autobiography in which he published his own college transcript. https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/q ... anslation/

I don't think that Frederick Franz was the "primary translator" of the NWT. I would have to see his book to be convinced. Can you present exactly what he says in his book that leads you to believe that he is the primary translator? That would be helpful, since I assume you already have seen what he wrote in his book.

Did you not click the link?
The article said so.

Yes I clicked the link. It does not show any proof that Frederick Franz was the "main translator" of the NWT. There are just mean statements by a former JW from which there are never any up-building comments. For you to take the article seriously you have to believe that Raymond Franz was absolutely truthful, and I don't see anything in his article that would convince me of such. I have read statements of his in the past, and he twists truth and makes it seem nefarious.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1975]

To address the OP, Jesus said himself that he was not God Almighty.

"And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3, KJV)

"I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28, KJV)

"I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17c, KJV)

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1969]

Codex Sinacticus 4th century=Catholicism. 4 men translated it. There was no other supposed Christian religion at that point.

Please do a deep research, not just an opinion. Find the link below;

No, Codex Sinaiticus is not a Catholic translation. It is a 4th-century Greek manuscript of the Christian Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments. While it includes some texts not always found in modern Bibles (like the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas), and is a valuable resource for biblical scholarship, it is not specifically a Catholic translation. The Catholic Church uses translations like the Vulgate and the New Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition (NRSV-CE) https://www.google.com/search?q=is+sina ... e&ie=UTF-8

Along with Codex Alexandrinus and Codex Vaticanus, it is one of the earliest and most complete manuscripts of the Bible, and contains the oldest complete copy of the New Testament.[3] It is a historical treasure,[4] and using the study of comparative writing styles (palaeography), it has been dated to the mid-fourth century.[5]: 77–78 
Biblical scholarship considers Codex Sinaiticus to be one of the most important Greek texts of the New Testament, along with Codex Vaticanus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus

[Capbook]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1975]

To address the OP, Jesus said himself that he was not God Almighty.

Verse that said it plainly please?

And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3, KJV)

The Father had said that eternal life is in His Son Jesus. Do the Father's words true to you or not? Or that it expires nine verse after 1 John 5:11?

"I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28, KJV)

Jesus also said I and the Father are one. (John 10:30) Also Jesus as the only begotten God. (John 1:18) NAS95.

"I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17c, KJV)

The Father's words Himself said to the Son, "Your throne, O God". Not what the Arians would quote that the throne is God.
Would the "my God" in Heb 1:9 can deny the Father's words that called Jesus "God" on the same verse?

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1977]

The only religion claiming to be christian that existed was Catholicism in the 4th century-thus it was by Catholicism the codex sinacticus was translated. Who else would bother? Certainly not the Jewish religion.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1975]

To address the OP, Jesus said himself that he was not God Almighty.

Verse that said it plainly please?

And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3, KJV)

The Father had said that eternal life is in His Son Jesus. Do the Father's words true to you or not? Or that it expires nine verse after 1 John 5:11?

"I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28, KJV)

Jesus also said I and the Father are one. (John 10:30) Also Jesus as the only begotten God. (John 1:18) NAS95.

"I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17c, KJV)

The Father's words Himself said to the Son, "Your throne, O God". Not what the Arians would quote that the throne is God.
Would the "my God" in Heb 1:9 can deny the Father's words that called Jesus "God" on the same verse?

You talk about doing "deep" research. You reveal about yourself that you have not done so. You completely ignore John 20:17 and continue with your spurious statements that the Father called Jesus "God." He did no such thing, as can be seen when going back to the Hebrew translation from which Paul copied the verse under consideration. In the Tanakh it is said that "Your divine throne is everlasting." No mention of calling Jesus "God." In verse 9 of Heb.1, it is very plain that Jesus has a God. "Your God" it says, showing that fact.

What does it mean that the Father and Christ are "one?" It means that they are in agreement. Jesus' disciples are also "one" with the Father and Jesus. (See John 17:20-23.)