Equality between the Father and Son

[placebofactor]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

[placebofactor]

Of course the throne itself isn't God! The throne means that all of the Messiah's power comes from God, just like the power that the Beast has in Revelation comes from the Devil. Did you read the account? "And the dragon gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority." (Rev.13:2b)

Because you won't prefer rendition of the word for word Bible translation of "Your throne, O God," you chose from paraphrase "Your throne is God forever" as Historia described it as an awkward and unusual expression. Plain reading would be the "throne is Deity."

It is no paraphrase. It is what the Bible says. Go to the Tanakh at Psalm 45:8,9 and see for yourself. It's not an awkward expression. I posted Revelation 13:2b to show that that wording is well-known to those familiar with the Scriptures. The Devil gives his power to the Beast and his throne. The throne signifies that the power that the Beast has comes from the Devil. In Hebrews 1:8 the power and authority come from God to the Messiah.

I believe I have already proven and posted this verse from the Tanakh Aramaic Hebrew "Thy throne, O God," with its same corresponding Strong Number with the English translations of KJV. That does not say "the throne is God" by paraphrased Bibles.

The Tanakh says: "Your divine throne is forever." It does not call the Messiah "God."

Naturally, the Tanakh did not call the Messiah "God." It was a mystery revealed to John around 96 A.D.

[onewithhim]

Because you won't prefer rendition of the word for word Bible translation of "Your throne, O God," you chose from paraphrase "Your throne is God forever" as Historia described it as an awkward and unusual expression. Plain reading would be the "throne is Deity."

It is no paraphrase. It is what the Bible says. Go to the Tanakh at Psalm 45:8,9 and see for yourself. It's not an awkward expression. I posted Revelation 13:2b to show that that wording is well-known to those familiar with the Scriptures. The Devil gives his power to the Beast and his throne. The throne signifies that the power that the Beast has comes from the Devil. In Hebrews 1:8 the power and authority come from God to the Messiah.

I believe I have already proven and posted this verse from the Tanakh Aramaic Hebrew "Thy throne, O God," with its same corresponding Strong Number with the English translations of KJV. That does not say "the throne is God" by paraphrased Bibles.

The Tanakh says: "Your divine throne is forever." It does not call the Messiah "God."

Naturally, the Tanakh did not call the Messiah "God." It was a mystery revealed to John around 96 A.D.

The Jews were expecting some kind of Messiah since Jehovah said the words at Genesis 3:15. (See also Genesis 22:18, Genesis 49:10, Deut. 18:15,18.)

See Luke 3....John the Baptist was expecting the Messiah (verse 6), and before that verse, Simeon showed that the Messiah was looked for to come (chapter 2, verses 25-32). Anna came near to the baby Jesus when he was brought to the temple to be circumcised, and had been waiting for Jerusalem's deliverance (verse 38). Everyone was expecting Jehovah's means of deliverance, since way back in the day.

[placebofactor]

It is no paraphrase. It is what the Bible says. Go to the Tanakh at Psalm 45:8,9 and see for yourself. It's not an awkward expression. I posted Revelation 13:2b to show that that wording is well-known to those familiar with the Scriptures. The Devil gives his power to the Beast and his throne. The throne signifies that the power that the Beast has comes from the Devil. In Hebrews 1:8 the power and authority come from God to the Messiah.

I believe I have already proven and posted this verse from the Tanakh Aramaic Hebrew "Thy throne, O God," with its same corresponding Strong Number with the English translations of KJV. That does not say "the throne is God" by paraphrased Bibles.

The Tanakh says: "Your divine throne is forever." It does not call the Messiah "God."

Naturally, the Tanakh did not call the Messiah "God." It was a mystery revealed to John around 96 A.D.

The Jews were expecting some kind of Messiah since Jehovah said the words at Genesis 3:15. (See also Genesis 22:18, Genesis 49:10, Deut. 18:15,18.)

See Luke 3....John the Baptist was expecting the Messiah (verse 6), and before that verse, Simeon showed that the Messiah was looked for to come (chapter 2, verses 25-32). Anna came near to the baby Jesus when he was brought to the temple to be circumcised, and had been waiting for Jerusalem's deliverance (verse 38). Everyone was expecting Jehovah's means of deliverance, since way back in the day.

I would like to correct you on one point. John the Baptist was sent to prepare the way for Jehovah (Jesus). This was written in all 4 gospels because of its importance. John's announcement and Jesus' coming were the link between the old and new economies. The Prince of Peace was to have his coming proclaimed and his way prepared.

"Prepare you the way of the LORD," Every obstruction would be removed, revealing to the world the salvation of God in his beloved Son Jesus, whose name is the Savior = (Jesus)."

[onewithhim]

I believe I have already proven and posted this verse from the Tanakh Aramaic Hebrew "Thy throne, O God," with its same corresponding Strong Number with the English translations of KJV. That does not say "the throne is God" by paraphrased Bibles.

The Tanakh says: "Your divine throne is forever." It does not call the Messiah "God."

Naturally, the Tanakh did not call the Messiah "God." It was a mystery revealed to John around 96 A.D.

The Jews were expecting some kind of Messiah since Jehovah said the words at Genesis 3:15. (See also Genesis 22:18, Genesis 49:10, Deut. 18:15,18.)

See Luke 3....John the Baptist was expecting the Messiah (verse 6), and before that verse, Simeon showed that the Messiah was looked for to come (chapter 2, verses 25-32). Anna came near to the baby Jesus when he was brought to the temple to be circumcised, and had been waiting for Jerusalem's deliverance (verse 38). Everyone was expecting Jehovah's means of deliverance, since way back in the day.

I would like to correct you on one point. John the Baptist was sent to prepare the way for Jehovah (Jesus). This was written in all 4 gospels because of its importance. John's announcement and Jesus' coming were the link between the old and new economies. The Prince of Peace was to have his coming proclaimed and his way prepared.

"Prepare you the way of the LORD," Every obstruction would be removed, revealing to the world the salvation of God in his beloved Son Jesus, whose name is the Savior = (Jesus)."

Yes, my point was that Israel was looking for their deliverance for centuries.

[Capbook]

Of course the throne itself isn't God! The throne means that all of the Messiah's power comes from God, just like the power that the Beast has in Revelation comes from the Devil. Did you read the account? "And the dragon gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority." (Rev.13:2b)

Because you won't prefer rendition of the word for word Bible translation of "Your throne, O God," you chose from paraphrase "Your throne is God forever" as Historia described it as an awkward and unusual expression. Plain reading would be the "throne is Deity."

It is no paraphrase. It is what the Bible says. Go to the Tanakh at Psalm 45:8,9 and see for yourself. It's not an awkward expression. I posted Revelation 13:2b to show that that wording is well-known to those familiar with the Scriptures. The Devil gives his power to the Beast and his throne. The throne signifies that the power that the Beast has comes from the Devil. In Hebrews 1:8 the power and authority come from God to the Messiah.

I believe I have already proven and posted this verse from the Tanakh Aramaic Hebrew "Thy throne, O God," with its same corresponding Strong Number with the English translations of KJV. That does not say "the throne is God" by paraphrased Bibles.

The Tanakh says: "Your divine throne is forever." It does not call the Messiah "God."

You quote the translation, can you provide the Aramaic Hebrew of the text with Strong Numbers?
So we can compare to its English translations with Strong numbers.

[onewithhim]

Because you won't prefer rendition of the word for word Bible translation of "Your throne, O God," you chose from paraphrase "Your throne is God forever" as Historia described it as an awkward and unusual expression. Plain reading would be the "throne is Deity."

It is no paraphrase. It is what the Bible says. Go to the Tanakh at Psalm 45:8,9 and see for yourself. It's not an awkward expression. I posted Revelation 13:2b to show that that wording is well-known to those familiar with the Scriptures. The Devil gives his power to the Beast and his throne. The throne signifies that the power that the Beast has comes from the Devil. In Hebrews 1:8 the power and authority come from God to the Messiah.

I believe I have already proven and posted this verse from the Tanakh Aramaic Hebrew "Thy throne, O God," with its same corresponding Strong Number with the English translations of KJV. That does not say "the throne is God" by paraphrased Bibles.

The Tanakh says: "Your divine throne is forever." It does not call the Messiah "God."

You quote the translation, can you provide the Aramaic Hebrew of the text with Strong Numbers?
So we can compare to its English translations with Strong numbers.

No! We can look at Psalm 45 and compare it with Hebrews 1:8. We don't need Strong numbers to see what is in front of our eyes.

[Difflugia]

You quote the translation, can you provide the Aramaic Hebrew of the text with Strong Numbers?
So we can compare to its English translations with Strong numbers.

כִּסְאֲךָ֣ H3678—Your throne
אֱ֭לֹהִים H430—God
עֹולָ֣ם H5769—eternity
וָעֶ֑ד H5703—and future

[tygger2]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #67]

As you can see, there is no "is" in this Hebrew verse. The translator has to add it where he thinks it belongs.

[tygger2]

[Replying to tygger2 in post #68]

Heb. 1:8 in the KJV reads 'thy throne, O God, is forever and ever’


Literally the NT Greek text reads for Heb. 1:8: “Toward but the son the throne of you the god into the age of the age.”

The American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and The New English Bible (NEB) have provided alternate readings to the traditional trinitarian rendering of the KJV at Hebrews 1:8. These alternate readings (found in footnotes) agree with Dr. Moffatt’s, Dr. Barclay’s, Smith-Goodspeed’s, Byington’s, and the New World Translation’s renderings of this scripture (“God is your throne”).

Even Young’s Concise Bible Commentary (written by the famous trinitarian author of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible) admits: “[Heb. 1:8] may be justly rendered ‘God is thy throne ...’ in either case it is applicable to the mediatorial throne only.”

[placebofactor]

[Replying to tygger2 in post #68]

Heb. 1:8 in the KJV reads 'thy throne, O God, is forever and ever’


Literally the NT Greek text reads for Heb. 1:8: “Toward but the son the throne of you the god into the age of the age.”

The American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and The New English Bible (NEB) have provided alternate readings to the traditional trinitarian rendering of the KJV at Hebrews 1:8. These alternate readings (found in footnotes) agree with Dr. Moffatt’s, Dr. Barclay’s, Smith-Goodspeed’s, Byington’s, and the New World Translation’s renderings of this scripture (“God is your throne”).

Even Young’s Concise Bible Commentary (written by the famous trinitarian author of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible) admits: “[Heb. 1:8] may be justly rendered ‘God is thy throne ...’ in either case it is applicable to the mediatorial throne only.”

Then all the above must be wiser than the 60 brilliant, and proven scholars, professors of the three greatest Universities in all of Europe who translated the King James Bible? All the Bibles you mention above all used the A and the B. texts as their foundation. And if they disagree, they use the A. And what I find funny is, they can't even agree on how they should be translated. Why is that? Because these two manuscripts have a total of 15,000 changes since they left the hands of Westcott and Hort. It's a marketing scam, and sadly to say, the Christian community has fallen for it, hook, line, and sinker.