Accuracy of the KJV

[tygger2]

KJV and the Only Personal Name of God

This was written primarily for those who believe the King James Version is the infallible, perfect word of God (and for those who wish to discuss it with them).

There are numerous problems with the accuracy of the KJV translation. For example, see the 1 John 5:7 study.

This study, however, will concentrate on Ps. 83:18 in the KJV and the actual personal name of God.

1. The Hebrew text used by the King James translators is known as the Bomberg (or the Ben Chayyim) text. It may be found here online:
https://www.areopage.net/PDF/BibliaSacra.pdf

Remember to read from right to left in Hebrew!

Psalm 83:16-18 in the IB:

“Fill their faces with shame, and they will seek Your name, O Jehovah. Let them be ashamed and terrified forever; yea, let them be confounded and perish. And let them know - Your name (is) Jehovah - that You alone (are) the Most High over the whole earth.

2. This text used by the KJV translators contains the name YHWH (יהוה Strong's H3068) in Hebrew characters thousands of times.

3. The Most High God declares that his name is YHWH many times in this text.

4. The KJV translators 'translated' this name as ‘LORD’ (all-capitals) in nearly all of its thousands of occurrences in the Bomberg text.

5. In several places, however, these translators rendered it as ‘Jehovah.’

6. Probably the most important of these is found at Psalm 83:18 in the KJV (which is actually Ps. 83:19 in the Bomberg text used by the KJV translators).

7. Here is how Ps. 83:16-18 reads in the KJV:

“16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.

“17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

“18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Boldfacing added)

8. Notice how the name YHWH in the Hebrew texts (including the Bomberg text used by the KJV translators) as found in verse :16 (:17 in the Bomberg text) is translated in the KJV: “LORD.”

9. The actual word in Hebrew used for “Lord” and applied to God is “adonai” (ADNI in Hebrew characters). YHWH is an entirely different word, a personal name which means something like “He Will Be.” It is the only personal name that God tells us to use for him. And this is exactly what the ‘infallible’ KJV tells us in verse :18 (:19) - “…thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.”

10. Those who believe the KJV is entirely accurate must believe that ‘Jehovah’ is the only name for the Most High God. There should be no argument by them that it is mistranslated, mispronounced or should be ‘Yahweh’ or similar transliterations.

11. More important, it becomes obvious that the usual translation of YHWH in the KJV as ‘LORD’ (ADNI in Hebrew) is a serious mistranslation! OR, the translation of YHWH as JEHOVAH in several verses is a serious mistranslation! Either way, the KJV has seriously mistranslated and is certainly not infallible.

12. Although still not infallible, the American Standard Version (ASV) uses the KJV’s Elizabethan English but has corrected the thousands of uses of YHWH in the Hebrew text from the ‘LORD’ of most of the KJV verses to ‘Jehovah.’ The Divine Name KJB has done the same - http://www.dnkjb.net/

13. How can we possibly consider the KJV to be infallible (or even the best Bible available)?

[placebofactor]

KJV and the Only Personal Name of God

This was written primarily for those who believe the King James Version is the infallible, perfect word of God (and for those who wish to discuss it with them).

There are numerous problems with the accuracy of the KJV translation. For example, see the 1 John 5:7 study.

This study, however, will concentrate on Ps. 83:18 in the KJV and the actual personal name of God.

1. The Hebrew text used by the King James translators is known as the Bomberg (or the Ben Chayyim) text. It may be found here online:
https://www.areopage.net/PDF/BibliaSacra.pdf

Remember to read from right to left in Hebrew!

Psalm 83:16-18 in the IB:

“Fill their faces with shame, and they will seek Your name, O Jehovah. Let them be ashamed and terrified forever; yea, let them be confounded and perish. And let them know - Your name (is) Jehovah - that You alone (are) the Most High over the whole earth.

2. This text used by the KJV translators contains the name YHWH (יהוה Strong's H3068) in Hebrew characters thousands of times.

3. The Most High God declares that his name is YHWH many times in this text.

4. The KJV translators 'translated' this name as ‘LORD’ (all-capitals) in nearly all of its thousands of occurrences in the Bomberg text.

5. In several places, however, these translators rendered it as ‘Jehovah.’

6. Probably the most important of these is found at Psalm 83:18 in the KJV (which is actually Ps. 83:19 in the Bomberg text used by the KJV translators).

7. Here is how Ps. 83:16-18 reads in the KJV:

“16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.

“17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

“18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Boldfacing added)

8. Notice how the name YHWH in the Hebrew texts (including the Bomberg text used by the KJV translators) as found in verse :16 (:17 in the Bomberg text) is translated in the KJV: “LORD.”

9. The actual word in Hebrew used for “Lord” and applied to God is “adonai” (ADNI in Hebrew characters). YHWH is an entirely different word, a personal name which means something like “He Will Be.” It is the only personal name that God tells us to use for him. And this is exactly what the ‘infallible’ KJV tells us in verse :18 (:19) - “…thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.”

10. Those who believe the KJV is entirely accurate must believe that ‘Jehovah’ is the only name for the Most High God. There should be no argument by them that it is mistranslated, mispronounced or should be ‘Yahweh’ or similar transliterations.

11. More important, it becomes obvious that the usual translation of YHWH in the KJV as ‘LORD’ (ADNI in Hebrew) is a serious mistranslation! OR, the translation of YHWH as JEHOVAH in several verses is a serious mistranslation! Either way, the KJV has seriously mistranslated and is certainly not infallible.

12. Although still not infallible, the American Standard Version (ASV) uses the KJV’s Elizabethan English but has corrected the thousands of uses of YHWH in the Hebrew text from the ‘LORD’ of most of the KJV verses to ‘Jehovah.’ The Divine Name KJB has done the same - http://www.dnkjb.net/

13. How can we possibly consider the KJV to be infallible (or even the best Bible available)?

My response to your post: If all scripture is God breathed, what you are implying is that the LORD is not capable of keeping his word intact and uncorrupted, is that what you are saying? If you say yes, it appears your god is weak. The corruption by men began a little over 100 years ago, not with the King James Bible that has remained steadfast for the past 414 years, a Bible born out of persecution and prayer, not profit mongers.

All the Bibles you mentioned above are recent, and every one of them has more than 3 or 4 new copyrights since their first edition. Sounds like confusion to me. If they didn't know what they were doing on the first edition, why would they know any more on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th? Men have died to preserve God's word, and it appears so-called salesmen of corruption are attempting to confuse the brethren. Christians left Europe and other parts of the world in fear. They came to America with only the clothes on their back and little else except their Bishop's Bible or King James Bible. Without these people and their Bibles, America would look very different today. All I see today is confusion among Christians and division. Look at the number of denominations that have sprung up in the past 100 years since all these so-called Bibles have hit the market. That's my take.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #2]

Why “LORD” and “God” Instead of YHVH?

The translators of the King James Bible followed a long-standing Jewish tradition of not pronouncing the divine name YHVH (also rendered as YHWH or the Tetragrammaton). Instead, they substituted:

“LORD” (in all caps) for YHVH, and “GOD” (in all caps) when Adonai and YHVH appeared together, to avoid saying “Lord LORD”

This practice was rooted in reverence. Ancient Jewish scribes, out of deep respect for the sacred name, would read “Adonai” (meaning “Lord”) whenever they encountered YHVH in the text. And so, the K.J.V. translators honored this tradition.

It's that simple. Because the oracles of God were given to the Jews, no man can say if it was the Lord's hand that guided the ancient prophets' pen to write his name as LORD and God, instead of his sacred name YHWH. God's name was, and the correct pronunciation of his name was unknown. So don't put it on the translators of the K.J.B., they showed deep respect for the ancient Jewish scribes, and reverence for the name of God, and for the manuscripts that remain. They understood, so they translated what the Jews were given and handed down to us, the oracles as they received them. I remember reading, one of the 60 different translators prayed every day for 5 or 6 hours before he went to work translating. I believe the LORD honored his prayers and the prayers of the other translators.

We cannot go back 425 years and ask the men who did the translating of the K.J.B. We have to have faith that the LORD guided these men through prayer, giving them the wisdom needed to finish their work. It took almost 11 years to finish. I see no reason for them to deceive or corrupt their hard work.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #2]

Why “LORD” and “God” Instead of YHVH?

The translators of the King James Bible followed a long-standing Jewish tradition of not pronouncing the divine name YHVH (also rendered as YHWH or the Tetragrammaton). Instead, they substituted:

“LORD” (in all caps) for YHVH, and “GOD” (in all caps) when Adonai and YHVH appeared together, to avoid saying “Lord LORD”

This practice was rooted in reverence. Ancient Jewish scribes, out of deep respect for the sacred name, would read “Adonai” (meaning “Lord”) whenever they encountered YHVH in the text. And so, the K.J.V. translators honored this tradition.

It's that simple. Because the oracles of God were given to the Jews, no man can say if it was the Lord's hand that guided the ancient prophets' pen to write his name as LORD and God, instead of his sacred name YHWH. God's name was, and the correct pronunciation of his name was unknown. So don't put it on the translators of the K.J.B., they showed deep respect for the ancient Jewish scribes, and reverence for the name of God, and for the manuscripts that remain. They understood, so they translated what the Jews were given and handed down to us, the oracles as they received them. I remember reading, one of the 60 different translators prayed every day for 5 or 6 hours before he went to work translating. I believe the LORD honored his prayers and the prayers of the other translators.

We cannot go back 425 years and ask the men who did the translating of the K.J.B. We have to have faith that the LORD guided these men through prayer, giving them the wisdom needed to finish their work. It took almost 11 years to finish. I see no reason for them to deceive or corrupt their hard work.

I would like to add this to the above comments I made. I found this information on AI.
The following concerns the Codex Sinaiticus (A) and Codex Vaticanus (B)—two of the early biblical manuscripts. These manuscripts were heavily corrected over the centuries. The Codex Sinaiticus (A) estimated corrections, nearly 15,000 changes were documented by Tischendorf in just the London portion of the manuscript. The full manuscript likely had over 25,000 corrections. And at least nine different correctors worked on it, from the 4th to the 12th century.

If we line the above up with Revelation 22, which warns us that even one word added or one word removed will bring the plagues that are written in this book, I would be very careful in promoting these corrupt versions called the Bible.

[tygger2]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #4]

1 John 5:7 in KJV

Respectedy trinitarian New Testament Bible scholar Dr. A. T. Robertson writes:

"For there are three who bear witness (hoti treis eisin hoi marturountes). At this point the Latin Vulgate gives the words in the Textus Receptus [Received Text], found in no Greek MS. [Manuscript] save two late cursives (162 in the Vatican Library of the fifteenth century, 34 of the sixteenth century [1520 A.D.] in Trinity College, Dublin). Jerome [famed trinitarian, 342-420 A. D.] did not have it. .... Erasmus did not have it in his first edition, but rashly offered to insert it [in his next edition of 1522] if a single Greek MS. had it and [ms.] 34 [1520 A.D.] was produced with the insertion, as if made to order. The spurious addition is: en toi ouranoi ho pater, ho logos kai to hagion pneuma kai houtoi hoi treis hen eisin kai treis eisin hoi marturountes en tei gei (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and the three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth). The last clause belongs to verse 8. The fact and the doctrine of the Trinity do not depend on this spurious addition." - p. 240, Vol. VI, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press, 1960.

[tygger2]

[Replying to tygger2 in post #5]

1 Tim. 3:16 in the KJV

1 Tim. 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh")


As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God "manifest in the flesh."

Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with "God" as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: "he" (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [`70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck's translation), "he who" (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), "who," or "which." Even the equally old Douay version has "which was manifested in the flesh." All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word OC ("who") here instead of ΘC ("God"). Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?

Noted trinitarian Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:

“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts – though the majority even of Byzantine manuscripts still preserved the true reading.” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp.696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:

“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or ὅ [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.