Can you please provide evidence for these Biblical events?

[Compassionist]

Can you please provide evidence for the following Biblical events?

1. Creation Miracles (Genesis 1–3)

Creation of the universe: God creates light, sky, land, seas, plants, stars, animals, and humans in six days.
Creation of angels: Implied in passages like Job 38:4–7; often considered an early act before physical creation.
Creation of Adam and Eve: God forms Adam from dust and breathes life into him; Eve is made from Adam’s rib.
Creation of other organisms: All species of plants and animals are said to have been created by divine command.
The Garden of Eden: A paradise created for Adam and Eve.
The Fall: The serpent speaks; Adam and Eve eat forbidden fruit and are evicted from Eden; curses are pronounced.

2. Early Genesis Miracles

The mark and protection of Cain (Genesis 4:15).
The longevity of pre-Flood humans (many living 900+ years).
Noah’s Flood (Genesis 6–9): God floods the entire world, saving only Noah, his family, and the animals in the ark.
The rainbow covenant: God sets a rainbow as a sign of the promise never again to flood the earth.
Confusion of languages at Babel (Genesis 11): Humanity’s speech is divided, and people scatter across the world.

3. Miracles in the Patriarchal Era (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph)

Call of Abram: God speaks directly to Abram (Genesis 12).
Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: Fire and brimstone from heaven (Genesis 19).
Lot’s wife turned to salt (Genesis 19:26).
Birth of Isaac to elderly Sarah (Genesis 21).
God’s testing of Abraham: A ram provided in place of Isaac (Genesis 22).
Jacob’s ladder dream and wrestling with God (Genesis 28; Genesis 32).
Joseph’s prophetic dreams and interpretations (Genesis 37–41).

4. Miracles of Moses and the Exodus

The burning bush (Exodus 3).
Staff turned into a serpent (Exodus 4).
The Ten Plagues on Egypt (Exodus 7–12):

1. Water to blood
2. Frogs
3. Gnats or lice
4. Flies
5. Livestock disease
6. Boils
7. Hail
8. Locusts
9. Darkness
10. Death of the firstborn
The Passover protection (Israelites spared).
Parting of the Red Sea (Exodus 14).
Pillar of cloud by day and fire by night, guiding Israel.
Manna and quail were provided in the wilderness.
Water from the rock (Exodus 17).
Mount Sinai theophany: God’s voice, thunder, lightning, and tablets of stone.
Bronze serpent healing (Numbers 21).
Aaron’s rod budding (Numbers 17).
Moses’ radiant face after speaking with God (Exodus 34).

5. Miracles in the Time of Joshua, Judges, and Kings

Jordan River stops flowing so Israel can cross (Joshua 3).
Walls of Jericho fall (Joshua 6).
The sun stands still (Joshua 10).
Gideon’s fleece tests (Judges 6).
Samson’s strength feats (Judges 14–16).
Fire consumes Elijah’s offering on Mount Carmel (1 Kings 18).
Elijah raises the widow’s son (1 Kings 17).
Elijah was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kings 2).
Elisha parts the Jordan, purifies water, multiplies oil, raises the Shunammite’s son, feeds 100 men with loaves, heals Naaman’s leprosy, and makes an iron axe-head float (2 Kings 2–6).
The shadow on the sundial goes backwards for King Hezekiah (2 Kings 20).
Angelic destruction of the Assyrian army (2 Kings 19).
Daniel’s survival in the lions’ den (Daniel 6).
Three men survive the fiery furnace (Daniel 3).
Handwriting on the wall (Daniel 5).

6. Miracles in the Intertestamental and New Testament Era

Zechariah was struck mute until John the Baptist’s birth (Luke 1).
Virgin (immaculate) conception of Jesus by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1; Luke 1).
Star of Bethlehem guiding the Magi (Matthew 2).
Angelic announcements to Mary, Joseph, and the shepherds.
John the Baptist’s prophetic calling before birth.

7. Miracles Performed by Jesus

Turning water into wine (John 2).
Healing the sick, blind, deaf, and lame (many Gospels).
Cleansing lepers (Matthew 8).
Casting out demons (Mark 5, etc.).
Feeding 5,000 (Matthew 14) and feeding 4,000 (Matthew 15).
Walking on water (Matthew 14).
Calming the storm (Mark 4).
Raising Jairus’s daughter (Mark 5).
Healing the centurion’s servant (Matthew 8).
Healing the bleeding woman (Mark 5).
Restoring sight to Bartimaeus (Mark 10).
Raising Lazarus from the dead (John 11).
The Transfiguration (Matthew 17).
Paying temple tax with a coin in a fish’s mouth (Matthew 17).
Cursing the barren fig tree (Mark 11).
The resurrection of Jesus (Matthew 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20).
Post-resurrection appearances (Luke 24; John 21).
Ascension into heaven (Acts 1).

8. Miracles in the Acts of the Apostles

Tongues of fire and the gift of languages at Pentecost (Acts 2).
Peter and John heal a lame man (Acts 3).
Peter raises Tabitha (Dorcas) from the dead (Acts 9).
Paul blinds and heals various people (Acts 13–28).
Earthquake freeing Paul and Silas from prison (Acts 16).
Paul survives a viper bite (Acts 28).
Philip’s teleportation (Acts 8).
Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead for lying (Acts 5).

9. Apocalyptic and Prophetic Miracles

Visions of Heaven and angels (Revelation 4–5).
Trumpet and bowl judgments: cosmic catastrophes, locusts, plagues, blood rivers, darkness.
Two witnesses calling down fire (Revelation 11).
The New Jerusalem descending from heaven (Revelation 21).
Creation of a new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21–22).
God dwelling with humanity eternally - the final miracle of restoration.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #29]

There’s a key difference between believing something didn’t happen and not believing that it did. My position isn’t that the rock split naturally - I don’t have evidence for that either - but that we currently lack evidence to justify any definite claim about how it split.

Testimony is a kind of evidence, but its weight depends on corroboration and context. The same standard applies to every ancient miracle mentioned in every religion. If we accept one solely on written testimony, consistency would oblige us to accept all of them. Since religions contradict each other and what we know from science, they can't be true.

So I’m not replacing one story with another; I’m leaving the question open until independent evidence appears. That’s not disbelief - it’s restraint.

[1213]

...Since religions contradict each other...

That is an interesting claim. Please show one example of what do you mean?

...I’m leaving the question open until independent evidence appears....

Ok, that is not bad.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #32]

Thank you, 1213. Sure - here are some examples of contradictions among major religions and a scientific worldview:

Contradictions Among Major Religions

1. Christianity

Core claims:

One God in three persons (Trinity).
Jesus is the incarnate Son of God, fully divine and human.
Salvation through faith in Christ’s atoning death on the cross and resurrection.
Resurrection of the dead: souls go to eternal heaven or hell.
Scripture (the Bible) is divinely inspired and uniquely authoritative.

Contradictions:

Islam and Judaism deny the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus.
Hinduism and Buddhism reject sin and atonement theology.
Jainism, Buddhism, and Hinduism teach reincarnation, not resurrection.
Science and other religious creation stories contradict the Genesis creation timeline.

2. Islam

Core claims:

Absolute monotheism: Allah has no partners or equals.
Muhammad is the final prophet; the Qur’an is the final revelation.
Salvation through submission to Allah and good deeds.
Denies Jesus’s divinity and crucifixion (claims he was raised to heaven).
Afterlife: resurrection, judgment, paradise or hell.

Contradictions:

Christianity affirms Jesus’s crucifixion and divinity.
Judaism rejects Muhammad as a prophet.
Hinduism and Buddhism reject a single creator God.
Zoroastrianism and Baháʼí accept different revelations.

3. Judaism

Core claims:

One God (YHWH), creator and sustainer of all.
God revealed the Torah to Moses; Israel is His chosen people.
Awaiting a future human Messiah (not yet arrived).
The afterlife is ambiguous or metaphorical in traditional Judaism.

Contradictions:

Christianity and Islam claim new covenants that supersede Judaism.
Hinduism and Buddhism deny creation ex nihilo by a personal God.
Sikhism and Baháʼí include prophets outside Jewish tradition.

4. Jainism

Core claims:

The universe is eternal; no creator God.
Souls are eternal and bound by karma.
Liberation through nonviolence and detachment.
Reincarnation until the soul attains perfect purity.

Contradictions:

Monotheistic religions claim a creator deity; Jainism denies one.
Rejects divine grace, atonement, and prophecy - key in Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity and Islam).
Jain cosmology contradicts linear creation-and-end-time narratives.

5. Buddhism

Core claims:

No creator God; the cosmos is beginningless.
Life is suffering; liberation ends rebirth.
Morality and mindfulness purify the mind; no permanent soul.

Contradictions:

The denial of an eternal soul contradicts Hinduism’s doctrine.
Rejects divine revelation, creator God, and heaven/hell as eternal states.
Incompatible with Abrahamic resurrection or judgment beliefs.

6. Hinduism

Core claims:

Brahman: the ultimate, formless reality; gods are manifestations.
Cyclic creation and destruction of the universe.
Reincarnation and karma govern all beings. People are born into castes.
Liberation through good karma, devotion, knowledge, and discipline.

Contradictions:

Contradicts Abrahamic linear time and single creation.
Conflicts with monotheistic rejection of polytheism.
Karma and reincarnation oppose ideas of divine judgment or eternal hell.

7. Sikhism

Core claims:

One formless, eternal God.
Founded by Guru Nanak. The Sikh scripture is the Guru Granth Sahib.
Rejects ritualism, caste, and idolatry.
Stresses ethical living, meditation on God’s name, and equality.

Contradictions:

Rejects both polytheism (Hinduism) and incarnation (Christianity).
Denies Muhammad and Jesus as final or unique revelations.
Rejects karmic fatalism, yet accepts reincarnation - unlike Abrahamic faiths.

8. Zoroastrianism

Core claims:

Ahura Mazda is the supreme creator and source of all good.
Angra Mainyu is the spirit of evil - cosmic dualism.
Human free choice determines alignment with good or evil.
Afterlife judgment; eventual restoration of creation.

Contradictions:

Abrahamic monotheism denies any co-eternal evil being.
Hinduism’s cyclical cosmology differs from Zoroastrian linear eschatology.
Buddhism and Jainism reject moral dualism as metaphysical reality.

9. Baháʼí Faith

Core claims:

One God reveals truth progressively through messengers (Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Baháʼu’lláh, etc.).
All religions share one divine source; unity of humanity is the goal.
Science and religion are complementary.

Contradictions:

Christianity, Islam, and Judaism reject new revelation after their prophets.
Buddhism and Jainism do not affirm a personal God or revelation model.
Baháʼí universalism contradicts exclusivist truth-claims of others.

10. Daoism (also translated as Taoism)

Core claims:

The Dao is the natural, ineffable cosmic principle underlying all.
Harmony through wu-wei (non-forcing action) and balance (yin-yang).
No personal creator God; immortality and transcendence sought through harmony.

Contradictions:

Denies personal God of Abrahamic religions.
Rejects moral absolutism - emphasizes balance rather than divine command.
Contradicts the karma/rebirth model of Buddhism and Hinduism.

11. Shintō

Core claims:

Indigenous Japanese religion centered on kami (spirits of nature, ancestors, forces).
No creator god; the world is inherently good.
Ritual purity and harmony with nature are central.

Contradictions:

Polytheism and animism contradict monotheism.
No doctrine of sin or salvation, unlike Abrahamic faiths.
Rejects karma/rebirth system of Buddhism, though often blended in Japan.

12. Animism (Global Indigenous Traditions)

Core claims:

Everything (animals, plants, rivers, mountains) has a spirit or life-force.
The world is a web of relationships; rituals maintain balance with spirits.
Often lacks a supreme creator but recognizes local deities or ancestors.

Contradictions:

Conflicts with monotheistic exclusivity (one God only).
Contradicts non-theistic worldviews (e.g., secular humanism, Buddhism).
Challenges doctrines separating humans from nature or spirit from matter.

Each religion provides a different - often mutually exclusive - account of:

The origin of the universe (created once vs. eternally cycling)
The nature of God (one, many, or none)
The human condition (sin, ignorance, karma, illusion)
The path to salvation/liberation (faith, works, enlightenment, devotion)
The afterlife (heaven/hell, rebirth, none, or ancestral spirit world)

What Science Tells Us

Origin and Age of the Universe

Evidence: Cosmic microwave background radiation, galactic redshift, and abundance of light elements.

Conclusion: The universe began with the Big Bang about 13.8 billion years ago.

No evidence supports a six-day creation by the Biblical God or the claim by Biblical literalists that the universe is 6,000 years old.

Age of the Solar System and Earth

Meteorite dating, radiometric isotopes, and lunar samples show:

Solar system: ≈4.57 billion years old

Earth: ≈4.54 billion years old

Evolution of Life

Evidence: Fossil record, DNA homology, comparative anatomy, observed natural selection.

Conclusion: All life evolved through common descent over billions of years.

First single-celled life: ~3.8 billion years ago

Humans share ~98.8% of DNA with chimpanzees.

No scientific evidence supports independent, instantaneous creation of species.

At least 99.9% of all the species that have evolved on Earth so far have gone extinct due to five mass extinctions.

Consciousness and the Soul

Findings: Neural activity correlates with every measurable aspect of thought, memory, and emotion.

Brain injuries, anesthesia, and neuroimaging all show consciousness depends on the physical brain.

No reproducible evidence exists for an immaterial, detachable soul.

Reincarnation and Resurrection

Claims of past-life memory or bodily resurrection lack empirical confirmation.

Rigorous investigations (e.g., by Ian Stevenson, Jim Tucker) remain anecdotal and inconclusive.

No verified mechanism allows the reanimation or transmigration of consciousness after death.

Summary

Every major religion offers mutually exclusive explanations of the universe’s origin, purpose, and future.

Science, using observation, testing, and revision, provides a consistent and independently verifiable picture:

Universe: 13.8 billion years old

Earth: 4.54 billion years old

Life evolved gradually through natural processes

Consciousness arises from neurological activities, not supernatural souls.

Therefore, while religious faiths differ irreconcilably in beliefs, scientific cosmology and biology converge on a single evidence-based worldview - one that continues to expand through discovery rather than divine decree. Hence, my worldview is scientific, secular and vegan.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #1]

Hey Compassionist...thanks for pointing me to this thread to share my thoughts. There are a lot of supposed miracles to cover, but I think the linchpin is Jesus' resurrection, so I would like to start there.

I think an argument for the historicity of Jesus' resurrection is a two part case. First, one needs to establish the facts that need to be explained. Second, one must then show what the best explanation of that data is (via criteria such as explanatory scope, explanatory power, plausibility, lack of contrivance, being in accord with accepted beliefs, far outstripping other rival hypotheses). Here is my very brief:

Step 1 - I think we have good reason to accept that Jesus was buried, his tomb was then later found empty, that people claimed to have post-mortem appearances after his burial, and the origin of the Christian faith preaching Jesus' resurrection as central to their message.

Step 2 - I think we have good reason to accept that Jesus actually resurrected over against other theories such as legend, wrong tomb, conspiracy, jesus escaped death, hallucinations, twin brother, and some unknown physical explanation.

Now, of course there are many things to be said within each step, but before we get there it may be good to ask whether you agree that if all of this were true, one should believe that God exists (which is the issue which caused you to invite me here from that other thread).

If so, then are you familiar with this argument? If so, then where do you disagree with it? If you are not familiar with this argument, would you like to go into more detail, step by step with me?

[Compassionist]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #34]

Thank you, The Tanager, for summarizing your case clearly. I’m familiar with the “two-step” historical argument for the resurrection, so I’ll outline where I think the reasoning becomes problematic - and yes, I’m happy to go through it step by step.

1. Establishing the “facts”

You list four key claims:

1. Jesus was buried.
2. His tomb was later found empty.
3. People claimed post-mortem appearances.
4. The Christian movement arose centered on resurrection belief.

Even if we grant these as reported traditions, the question is whether they are independently corroborated historical facts or theological claims preserved within Christian texts written decades later.

No contemporary non-Christian source mentions the empty tomb or resurrection appearances.
The Gospels themselves differ on who went to the tomb, when, and what they saw (compare Mark 16:1-8 with Matthew 28:1-10, Luke 24, and John 20).
Paul’s account in 1 Corinthians 15 is an early creed but still reports visions (“he appeared to Cephas… to the twelve…”), not physical verification, and Paul admits his own encounter was visionary (“last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me,” v. 8).

So rather than “facts,” we have claims of experiences whose nature and context are uncertain.

2. Competing explanations

When we compare hypotheses, the resurrection posits a unique violation of all known biological regularities, whereas rival explanations (hallucinations, legendary development, cognitive dissonance, grief visions) draw on well-documented psychological and sociological processes.

Occam’s razor (parsimony) favours the explanation requiring fewer new ontological assumptions - not a suspension of natural law or the existence of a supernatural agent.

Even if we granted that the disciples sincerely believed they saw the risen Jesus, they could have hallucinated the risen Jesus - sincerity does not mean Jesus was actually resurrected. Visionary or hallucinatory experiences of the dead are common cross-culturally - see bereavement studies (Rees 1971; Barrett 2017) - without implying actual resurrection.

3. The “God therefore exists” step

Even if one could somehow prove a resurrection event, that wouldn’t automatically identify which god performed it or that the being is morally perfect. It would only show that something unexplained occurred.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; the evidence here remains entirely testimonial and inconsistent.

The “facts” aren’t independently verified; they’re theological narratives.
The resurrection hypothesis violates well-confirmed physical regularities and adds untestable entities.
Psychological, sociological, and legendary development models explain the data more parsimoniously.

I’d be glad to go step-by-step with you, starting with Step 1: the alleged empty tomb - examining how strong the historical case really is for that single element.

Would you like to start there? I especially recommend that you read this particular post: viewtopic.php?p=1179052#p1179052

[1213]

Thank you, 1213. Sure - here are some examples of contradictions among major religions and a scientific worldview:

Thanks, one example would have been enough.

The point of my question was to look, can we know what religion is correct, when there is differences or contradictions. I think important thing would be first to check what is actually said in the religion. For example about Christianity there is many false claims. And if you compare false idea to something else, it is basically a strawman argument.

But, basically the contradictions are:
1) How many Gods, or who is the God
2) What should we do
3) What happens to us

By what is said in the Bible, there is only one true God and the God is greater than Jesus and everyone else. So, it is in line with all the religions that tell there is only one God.

However, the Bible also acknowledges the existence of other gods. It tells there has been many gods. And that fits well to the other religions with many gods. The difference is, by what is said in the Bible, we should not keep the other gods as our God. Even if they exist, they are false gods. For example a golden calf can exist and people have kept it as their god. We should not do so.

And about "religions" that deny any god. How can they be called religions? Is then atheism also a religion? Apparently. And I think people always have something as their god. What a person keeps as his God can be seen from what he ultimately serves by his actions and what rules him. For some it might be fear and for some Love, but as Bob Dylan says,
"...you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the Devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody...".

But, how then know who is the right God? I think the Bible God is the only one who shows He knows things and things go as He has said. And that is why I think He is the greatest. And with knowing things i mean, knew what will happen to Jews long before the actual events. And also knowledge about earth that I don't think humans would have had, without God. By what I know, the other god's don't seem to have anything meaningful to say, which is why I don't see them as any real choice.

Islam and Judaism deny the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus.

Funny thing is, Trinity is not a Biblical teaching. And according to the Bible, there is only one true God and the God is greater than Jesus. So, there is really no difference in that regard.

Hinduism and Buddhism reject sin and atonement theology.

By what I know, Hinduism accept any way, also Christianity. Therefore, it would be perfectly ok to choose Christianity, if you would have to choose between Hinduism and Christinity.

And Buddhism, I don't think it can be called a religion, unless you think atheism is also a religion. Interesting thing about Buddhism is that in it the goal seems to be the same as hell (Gehenna) in the Bible.

Christianity and Islam claim new covenants that supersede Judaism.

Old Testament has the promise of a new covenant. The promise is fulfilled by Jesus.

7. Sikhism
...
Contradictions:
Rejects both polytheism (Hinduism) and incarnation (Christianity).
Denies Muhammad and Jesus as final or unique revelations.
Rejects karmic fatalism, yet accepts reincarnation - unlike Abrahamic faiths.

Rejects incarnation, but accepts reincarnation... ...sounds contradictory to me.

8. Zoroastrianism
...

Zoroastrianism is interesting from all the others, because it could be originally connected to the Bible God. Bible tells Cyrus king of Persia was influenced by the Bible God. And it may be that many ideas in Zoroastrianism comes from the Bible God.

Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of Yahweh by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, Yahweh stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and [put it] also in writing, saying, Thus says Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth has Yahweh, the God of heaven, given me; and he has charged me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whoever there is among you of all his people, Yahweh his God be with him, and let him go up.
2 Chr. 36:22-23

What Science Tells Us...

Unless you think Dr. Fauci is the Science, it says really nothing.

Science is really only a method to study things. And I think it is fine. By it we can learn many things.

Unfortunately many people mix up science with scientism, which is a religion like cult, where the opinions/beliefs of some people are held like the word of God. It can be seen as the modernization of mother earth cult.

The high priests of science make many claims. But, they are just humans. And humans make errors. The history of science is full of errors. And that makes it a very difficult religion to believe.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #36]

Thank you, 1213 - I appreciate how carefully you’ve thought this through. You’ve raised some important distinctions worth unpacking.

1. On contradictions among religions

Even when we correct misunderstandings about what each faith actually teaches, irreconcilable contradictions remain at the doctrinal level. For example:

Christianity teaches that Jesus is divine; Islam and Judaism explicitly deny that.
Hinduism accepts multiple deities and reincarnation; Abrahamic religions reject both.
Buddhism and Jainism deny a personal creator altogether.

These are not mere “different emphases” but mutually exclusive truth claims. Two propositions that directly contradict one another cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time. That’s why inter-religious dialogue usually focuses on ethics, not metaphysics.

2. On the Trinity

You’re right that the word Trinity doesn’t appear in the Bible. The doctrine emerged from later Christian attempts to reconcile passages that call Jesus “God” (John 1:1; John 20:28) with those that depict the Father as greater (John 14:28). So, Christians interpret Scripture through a later theological lens, while Jews and Muslims see that as a human addition. That disagreement is central, not peripheral.

3. On science vs. scientism

I fully agree: science itself is not a priesthood - it’s a method of testing hypotheses through observation, prediction, and falsification.
Scientism - the belief that science can answer every question - is indeed a philosophical overreach. But the scientific method remains our most reliable way of distinguishing what’s objectively true from what’s personally believed.

So when I refer to what “science tells us,” I simply mean what the evidence currently supports - for example:

The universe is ~13.8 billion years old.
The Earth is ~4.54 billion years old.
All known species, including humans, evolved through common descent.
No credible data support souls, reincarnation, or resurrection as physical events.

None of that requires faith in scientists as infallible - it requires trust in transparent, reproducible methods. Unlike dogma, scientific models change when new evidence appears.

4. On “serving somebody”

I like your Bob Dylan quote; it captures something true about human psychology - we all orient our lives around values that guide our actions. But that doesn’t mean everyone “worships” a god. A secular person might value evidence, reason, empathy and compassion, rather than a deity. What we serve is indeed visible through our actions, but it need not be supernatural. For example, a waiter at a restaurant serves customers.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #35]

I think your suggestion of going step by step is a good one. I will try to bring back all that you've said here as it applies. The first step involves what are the corroborated historical facts that need explaining.

Step 1: The Facts

1. Jesus was buried in a tomb

You didn't seem to comment on this, so you maybe agree with it, but I want to make sure. I also added the phrase "in a tomb" for clarity with supposed fact 2. So, do you agree this is a fact?

Still to come:

2. His tomb was later found empty.
3. People claimed post-mortem appearances.
4. The Christian movement arose centered on resurrection belief.

Step 2: Explanation of the Facts

Step 3: Implications of the Facts especially in regards to God's existence

[Compassionist]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #38]

I don't accept any event in any book as fact unless the events are proven with evidence. You are going to have to prove every alleged event in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation using evidence. If the Biblical God is real and truly wanted us to know that the vital crucifixion and resurrection of his alleged Son actually happened, He could have left unmistakable cosmic evidence - for example, arranging stars to write an undeniable celestial record of the event, visible to all present and future generations. After all, we are talking about saving trillions of souls from eternal torture in hell. What could be more important than this?

I understand why you’d like to start with the resurrection of Jesus - it’s the centerpiece of Christian theology - but that’s not the question I asked.

My original post listed many biblical claims ranging from Genesis to Revelation. If the Bible is to be trusted as a reliable record of divine creation and intervention, then all of those extraordinary events require independent corroboration, not just one.

Starting with the resurrection alone assumes the reliability of the rest of the text, when that’s exactly what’s in question. The same book that claims Jesus rose from the dead also claims that a snake deceived Adam and Eve, that there was a global flood, that the Red Sea parted, and the sun and the moon literally stopped in the sky.

If those earlier miracles are fiction, then by what consistent standard do we suddenly treat the miraculous resurrection of Jesus as the truth?

So, I’d like you to demonstrate - using verifiable, external evidence - why each of the claims in the Bible should be considered facts rather than fiction.

[1213]

...Even when we correct misunderstandings about what each faith actually teaches, irreconcilable contradictions remain at the doctrinal level. For example:

Christianity teaches that Jesus is divine; Islam and Judaism explicitly deny that....

Would be nice to know what they mean with divine.

But, I can agree that there are contradictions between religions. I just think, most of them can be solved easily by checking what is reasonable to keep as ones God.

...The doctrine emerged from later Christian attempts to reconcile passages that call Jesus “God” (John 1:1; John 20:28) ...

John 1:1 doesn't say Jesus is God. Also John 20:28 doesn't say Jesus is the God. Thomas can say "My Lord and my God", because God lives in Jesus, if we believe what Jesus says. And therefore they both were there.

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Fa-ther, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:10-11

So when I refer to what “science tells us,” I simply mean what the evidence currently supports - for example:

The universe is ~13.8 billion years old.
The Earth is ~4.54 billion years old.
All known species, including humans, evolved through common descent.
No credible data support souls, reincarnation, or resurrection as physical events.

None of that requires faith in scientists as infallible - it requires trust in transparent, reproducible methods. Unlike dogma, scientific models change when new evidence appears.

All of those require faith in that the information is correct and the interpretation of the evidence is correct. I have no good reason to believe the claims.

I like your Bob Dylan quote; it captures something true about human psychology - we all orient our lives around values that guide our actions. But that doesn’t mean everyone “worships” a god. A secular person might value evidence, reason, empathy and compassion, rather than a deity. What we serve is indeed visible through our actions, but it need not be supernatural. For example, a waiter at a restaurant serves customers.

basically the word god is a title, similar to king, but higher. It is the highest authority person has. I think everyone has something as their god, the highest authority that they serve with their actions, or what rules them. If it is not the Bible God for you, there is something else. In your case it could be you, if there is nothing else. So, indeed, it is not necessarily something supernatural.

Waiter serves the customers, but I think that is only the lowest level of hierarchy. To know what is the god, one would have to see, what is ultimately served and why one does what he does. For example what is the reason why the waiter serves. The reason could be for example money. And the money also can be just lower level in the hierarchy and there is another reason why the person does the work for the money. The ultimate purpose is then what can be seen as the God.

However, there is also other way to see this. Every action can be seen also a service or disservice for God. When you do good to other people, it can be seen also as a good action for God. Or, if you lie, you serve the father of lies. And when you love others, you serve Love. And it would be so, even if you think there is no god.

...I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?' "The King will answer them, 'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers{The word for "brothers" here may be also correctly translated "brothers and sisters" or "siblings."}, you did it to me.' Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you did-n't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.' "Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?' "Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.' These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Matt. 25:34-46