How the Bible fails

[Compassionist]

1. Astronomy & Cosmology: pre-scientific mythology

The Bible reflects an ancient Near Eastern cosmology, not hidden advanced knowledge:

Flat or dome-covered Earth (the firmament)

Waters above the sky

Sun, moon, and stars placed inside the firmament

Earth established before stars

Light existing before light sources

This isn’t “metaphor misunderstood later.”
It’s exactly what you’d expect from pre-astronomical humans with no telescopes, no physics, no cosmology.

A being who created galaxies would not accidentally endorse Bronze Age sky myths.

2. Physics: magical causation and category errors

Biblical physics routinely violates conservation laws, thermodynamics, and basic causality:

Matter appearing without physical mechanism

Instantaneous global floods

Heat, light, and motion without sources

Supernatural suspension of physical regularities without constraints

These aren’t exceptions explained by deeper laws.
They are storytelling devices, indistinguishable from myth.

3. Biology: creationism and biological impossibilities

The Bible gets biology wrong in structural ways:

Fixed “kinds” instead of common descent

Humans formed separately from animals

No understanding of genetics, evolution, extinction, deep time

Global bottlenecks that would have destroyed biodiversity

This is not a matter of missing details.
It reflects zero awareness of how life actually works.

4. Ethics: tribal morality, not universal compassion

Biblical ethics are deeply inconsistent and often morally indefensible:

Genocide endorsed

Slavery regulated, not abolished

Women treated as property

Children punished for ancestral sins

Infinite punishment for finite “belief errors”

These are not moral heights we failed to reach.
They are moral baselines we have since outgrown.

The best ethical moments in the Bible come from humans pushing against its own framework, not from divine command.

5. History: legendary development, not eyewitness rigor

The Bible fails basic historical standards:

Anonymous authorship

Decades-to-centuries-late composition

Theological agendas driving narrative

Contradictory accounts

No contemporary corroboration for central miracles

What we see is exactly what we see in myth formation everywhere else:
oral tradition → embellishment → canonization → dogma.

6. The pattern matters more than any single error

Any one mistake could be excused.

But the Bible fails:

astronomy,

physics,

biology,

ethics,

and history,

systematically, in the same direction, at the same level, with the same cultural fingerprints.

That pattern is diagnostic.

It looks exactly like what it is: a collection of human texts written by sincere but ignorant people trying to explain the world before science existed.

7. Why this matters morally

I care about reducing suffering and death, not about defending meaning or tradition.

That’s crucial.

Texts that:

misdescribe reality,

misassign blame,

moralize ignorance,

and sanctify error,

don’t just fail intellectually — they cause harm.

Religious certainty built on false premises has:

justified violence,

delayed medicine,

stigmatized illness,

excused cruelty,

and obstructed progress.

Rejecting that isn’t nihilism.
It’s ethical seriousness.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #20]

All evil things people do, can be explained by telling it is good for well-being and avoidance of unnecessary suffering... That is why I think those are not on itself a good foundation for good moral.

That objection misunderstands the framework.

The claim is not that people justify evil by appealing to well-being. Of course they do. Tyrants always claim their cruelty promotes stability or order.

The question is whether the action actually increases overall well-being and reduces unnecessary suffering when evaluated impartially and consistently.

A moral framework grounded in:

• Harm
• Reciprocity
• Consistency
• Universalizability

requires that the principle apply equally to all affected parties.

Genocide fails this test because it:

• Inflicts extreme suffering
• Violates reciprocity
• Cannot be universalized without contradiction
• Destroys well-being for its victims

Self-serving rationalization does not equal objective moral success.

If morality is not grounded in harm and well-being, then on what basis do we say genocide is wrong?

“Because God says so” reduces morality to authority rather than principle.

In your interpretation.

Revelation 20:10:

“They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”

“No rest day or night” and “tormented” are experiential terms in ordinary language.

You cannot both deny experiential language and insist on strict literalism elsewhere. You are in denial about the verses in the Bible which clearly state eternal torment in hell for non-Christians.

How do you know?

Because infants lack developed cognitive structures required for abstract moral learning.

Neuroscience shows:

• Moral reasoning depends on cortical development.
• Newborns do not possess abstract ethical cognition.

An infant who dies from leukemia does not consciously analyze evil.

If the lesson is for observers, then the infant becomes a means to educate others.

That reintroduces the instrumentalization issue.

They chose to know evil the hard way. That is why they were expelled to this world…

Even if Adam and Eve chose disobedience, they did not choose:

• Cretaceous mass extinction
• Parasitic wasps
• Pediatric bone cancer
• Plate tectonic disasters

If billions of beings suffer consequences for one ancestral act, proportional justice becomes problematic.

Furthermore, animals predate humans in evolutionary history. Predation existed long before any historical Adam.

If the Fall explains all natural evil, geological evidence complicates that explanation.

I think it only required reading the scriptures accurately…

But “accurate reading” repeatedly requires:

• Distinguishing cosmic light from solar light
• Distinguishing poetic stars from literal stars
• Distinguishing forming from creating
• Distinguishing eternal fire from eternal life

That is layered harmonization.

Which is fine — but it demonstrates that the text is not as self-evidently uniform as claimed.

From what were the fowls created? … It is possible God made models… so Adam could see them and name them.

Genesis 1:20–21:
“Let the waters bring forth… fowl.”

Genesis 2:19:
“Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air.”

You resolve this by suggesting:

• “Formed” does not mean originally created
• God may have made non-living models

But the text does not say “models.” It says God formed the animals and brought them to Adam.

That reading requires introducing an unstated hypothesis to reconcile the accounts.

Again — harmonization is possible. But the need for harmonization indicates contradiction in the narrative structure.

It is interesting that the contradictions atheists offer are always extremely poor.

Dismissing arguments as “poor” is not refutation. You are in denial about the fact that the Bible contradicts itself and is inaccurate in terms of both science and history. You are yet to prove the existence of the Biblical God and souls with actual evidence.

The question is whether:

• The text reads as seamless and uniform without theological synthesis,
or
• The text requires interpretive reconciliation to maintain coherence.

If reconciliation is required, that does not automatically invalidate the Bible.

But it does undermine claims that contradictions are “impossible.”

Returning to the Core Issue

Your explanation of suffering is:

• Adam and Eve chose to know evil.
• This world is the environment where evil is possible.

But consider:

1. Did all sentient organisms consent to participate in this moral lesson?
2. Did the 99.9% of all the species that existed on Earth which went extinct choose this curriculum?
3. Did infants who die as infants choose this structure? How could they when they died long before they could understand and communicate?

If not, then they are part of a system designed by an allegedly omniscient and omnipotent being.

If God is:

• Omniscient
• Omnipotent
• Omnibenevolent

Then the existence of extreme, involuntary suffering built into reality requires explanation beyond “people wanted to know evil.”

Because most sufferers never chose it.

That remains the central coherence question.

Not whether individual harmonizations are possible.

But whether the architecture of reality aligns with unlimited goodness and power.

That issue still stands.

Here is the 6th contradiction from the list: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html

From what were the animals created?
From water
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. Genesis 1:20
From out of the ground
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air. Genesis 2:19

[1213]

...The question is whether the action actually increases overall well-being and reduces unnecessary suffering when evaluated impartially and consistently....

And that is a matter of opinion, which is why it remains subjective.

“They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”

“No rest day or night” and “tormented” are experiential terms in ordinary language.

The word "tormented" doesn't necessary mean the subject must be alive.

Because infants lack developed cognitive structures required for abstract moral learning.
...

So, in that case they can't experience anything evil? If it is so with infants, how can you claim animals are different?

...Predation existed long before any historical Adam.

I have no good reason to believe that.

If the Fall explains all natural evil, geological evidence complicates that explanation.

Only if you interpret the evidence poorly.

But the text does not say “models.” It says God formed the animals and brought them to Adam.

But, it sounds like he was making clay animals. If I would say "I formed animals from dust", would you think I made real animals, or models/statues of animals?

Here is the 6th contradiction from the list: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html

From what were the animals created?
From water
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. Genesis 1:20
From out of the ground
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air. Genesis 2:19

Looks basically the same as the fifth. So, my answer is basically the same, you should read it as it is written, create and form are not the same.

But, nice that you remain optimistic in your futile attempt to prove Bible contradictory.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #22]

And that is a matter of opinion, which is why it remains subjective.

Disagreement does not equal subjectivity.

People disagree about whether the Earth is flat. That does not make its shape subjective.

But since you want contradictions shown clearly from the text itself, let us move directly to that issue.

1. Does God Tempt People — Or Not?

God does NOT tempt anyone

“Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am being tempted by God,’ for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.”
— James 1:13

God DOES tempt/test people

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.”
— Genesis 22:1 (KJV)

You may argue “tempt” vs “test,” but the Greek word in James (πειράζω) and the Hebrew word in Genesis (נִסָּה) both involve testing through trial.

If God places Abraham in a situation designed to provoke moral crisis under threat of losing his son, the distinction becomes semantic.

The plain reading presents tension.

2. Does God Harden Hearts — Or Do People Harden Their Own?

Pharaoh hardens his heart

“Pharaoh hardened his heart.”
— Exodus 8:15

God hardens Pharaoh’s heart

“The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh.”
— Exodus 9:12

God declares in advance He will harden it

“I will harden his heart.”
— Exodus 4:21

If both statements are literal, responsibility becomes shared in a way that complicates moral agency.

If one is metaphorical, then literalism is selectively applied.

3. Is God the Author of Confusion — Or Does He Send Delusion?

God is not the author of confusion

“For God is not the author of confusion.”
— 1 Corinthians 14:33

God sends strong delusion so people believe a lie

“Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false.”
— 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Actively sending delusion so people believe falsehood appears to conflict with not being an author of confusion.

Harmonization is possible — but the contradiction is evident. You are in denial about Biblical contradictions.

4. Can God Be Seen — Or Not?

No one has seen God

“No one has seen God at any time.”
— John 1:18

“No man hath seen God, nor can see him.”
— 1 Timothy 6:16

People have seen God

“Then went up Moses… and they saw the God of Israel.”
— Exodus 24:9–10

“I have seen God face to face.”
— Genesis 32:30

Both cannot be true in the same sense without qualification.

5. Does God Change — Or Not?

God does NOT change

“For I the LORD do not change.”
— Malachi 3:6

“God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should repent.”
— Numbers 23:19

God DOES repent/change His mind

“And the LORD repented that he had made man on the earth.”
— Genesis 6:6

“The LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.”
— Exodus 32:14

Either “repented” does not mean repented — or immutability is not absolute.

Again, reconciliation requires interpretive adjustment.

6. Were Birds Created from Water — Or from Ground?

From water

“Let the waters bring forth… fowl.”
— Genesis 1:20

From ground

“Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast… and every fowl of the air.”
— Genesis 2:19

You argue “create” vs “form.”

But Genesis 2:19 plainly states the fowl were formed from the ground.

To resolve this, one must:

• Reinterpret chronology
• Reinterpret vocabulary
• Or introduce unstated explanatory assumptions

Which shows internal narrative contradiction.

7. Who Created All Things — God Alone or Through Jesus?

God alone created everything

“I, the LORD… stretch out the heavens alone.”
— Isaiah 44:24

Jesus created all things

“All things were made by him.”
— John 1:3

“By him were all things created.”
— Colossians 1:16

If “alone” excludes other agents, tension exists.

If “alone” allows plurality within unity, then theology resolves it — but not by surface reading.

8. Does God Tempt — Or Not? (New Testament Version)

God tempts no one
— James 1:13

Jesus was tempted

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted.”
— Matthew 4:1

If the Spirit leads Jesus to be tempted, is that functionally different from divine orchestration?

Again, contradiction appears.

Conclusion

Notice what is happening:

Each example can be harmonized — but only by:

• Reinterpreting words
• Introducing theological frameworks
• Distinguishing senses
• Adding unstated qualifiers

That means contradictions are not “impossible.” You are doing mental gymnastics with the meaning of the verses to try to harmonize them. It shows you are in denial.

That is not “futile.”

It is textual analysis.

If the Bible were internally flawless in the strictest sense, such layered reconciliation would not be necessary.

But it does show that claims of absolute internal non-contradiction require interpretive work.

And that is the point.

You still have not proven the existence of the Biblical God and souls using actual evidence. The Bible is a deeply flawed book, full of scientific and historical inaccuracies. The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. Genesis 1:1-2:3.

The Bible is self-contradictory. It is evil. Here is my post in another thread where I explained the reasons for my conclusion that the Bible is evil: viewtopic.php?p=1179106#p1179106

Please see: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/categories.html for a full list of all the flaws in the Bible.

Here is the 7th Biblical contradiction from this list: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html

Were humans created before or after the other animals?
After the other animals
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and the cattle after their kind ... And God said, Let us make man ... So God created man in his own image. Genesis 1:25-27
Before the other animals
And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. Genesis 2:18-19

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #22]

And that is a matter of opinion, which is why it remains subjective.

Disagreement does not equal subjectivity.

When there are two opinions about good and right, why would your opinion be the correct one?

But since you want contradictions shown clearly from the text itself, let us move directly to that issue.

If you could do that clearly, you wouldn't need semantics and bad interpretations to do that.

...You may argue “tempt” vs “test,” but the Greek word in James (πειράζω) and the Hebrew word in Genesis (נִסָּה) both involve testing through trial.

If God places Abraham in a situation designed to provoke moral crisis under threat of losing his son, the distinction becomes semantic.

God didn't tempt Abraham to do something.

2. Does God Harden Hearts — Or Do People Harden Their Own?

God caused pharaoh to do so, by demanding freeing of the slaves.

3. Is God the Author of Confusion — Or Does He Send Delusion?

Delusion works, because people have rejected truth, as the 2 Thessalonians 2 shows, if you bother to read it wholly. So, no, God does not cause confusion, it is the result of people rejecting the truth.

4. Can God Be Seen — Or Not?

No one has seen God

“No one has seen God at any time.”
— John 1:18

“No man hath seen God, nor can see him.”
— 1 Timothy 6:16

People have seen God

“Then went up Moses… and they saw the God of Israel.”
— Exodus 24:9–10

“I have seen God face to face.”
— Genesis 32:30

In Exodus 24:9–10 they saw elohim, which can mean for example an angel.

And 1 Timothy 6:16 says: "the only One having immortality, living in light that cannot be approached, whom no one of men saw, nor can see; to whom be honor and everlasting might. Amen". Not "No man hath seen God, nor can see him".

Genesis 32:3, if you red the whole Gen. 32, you can see it is a man who was seen.

And Jacob was left alone. And a Man wrestled with him until the ascending of the dawn.
Gen. 32:24

5. Does God Change — Or Not?
...

Changing what one is doing, when situation changes, is not the same as change of mind.

...But Genesis 2:19 plainly states the fowl were formed from the ground.

And form is not the same as create. And even if it would be, there is no problem, if God would have created those two times. Genesis 2 doesn't tell animals were not created before the forming, which is why it is not a contradiction. The contradiction exists only, if you make silly interpretation, reinterpret vocabulary and introduce unstated explanatory assumptions.

7. Who Created All Things — God Alone or Through Jesus?
...
Jesus created all things

“All things were made by him.”
— John 1:3

“By him were all things created.”
— Colossians 1:16

Doing it through Jesus, does not mean He did not create things by himself. As Jesus says, he cannot do anything on his own.

I can of myself do nothing....
John 5:30

8. Does God Tempt — Or Not? (New Testament Version)

God tempts no one
— James 1:13

Jesus was tempted

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted.”
— Matthew 4:1

Jesus was tempted by Satan, not by God. God did not tempt/lure Jesus to do something wrong.

That means contradictions are not “impossible.” You are doing mental gymnastics with the meaning of the verses to try to harmonize them. It shows you are in denial.

It seems you are the one making mental gymnastics and deceiving people by cutting verses out of context and changing their meanings to what fits to your narrative.

You still have not proven the existence of the Biblical God and souls using actual evidence.

I don't think it was asked, and I don't think it would be useful.

The Bible is a deeply flawed book, full of scientific and historical inaccuracies. The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. Genesis 1:1-2:3.

The problem with that is, there is no good reason to believe the "science" has the correct order and understanding.

The Bible is self-contradictory.

No real evidence for that. It does not count, if you manage to take few lines from the book and twist them into lies.

Here is the 7th Biblical contradiction from this list: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html

Were humans created before or after the other animals?
After the other animals
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and the cattle after their kind ... And God said, Let us make man ... So God created man in his own image. Genesis 1:25-27
Before the other animals
And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. Genesis 2:18-19

Humans were created after the animals. But, after man was created, God formed different animals for Adam to see and name. Does not mean animals were not created already.

[servant1]

1. Astronomy & Cosmology: pre-scientific mythology

The Bible reflects an ancient Near Eastern cosmology, not hidden advanced knowledge:

Flat or dome-covered Earth (the firmament)

Waters above the sky

Sun, moon, and stars placed inside the firmament

Earth established before stars

Light existing before light sources

This isn’t “metaphor misunderstood later.”
It’s exactly what you’d expect from pre-astronomical humans with no telescopes, no physics, no cosmology.

A being who created galaxies would not accidentally endorse Bronze Age sky myths.

2. Physics: magical causation and category errors

Biblical physics routinely violates conservation laws, thermodynamics, and basic causality:

Matter appearing without physical mechanism

Instantaneous global floods

Heat, light, and motion without sources

Supernatural suspension of physical regularities without constraints

These aren’t exceptions explained by deeper laws.
They are storytelling devices, indistinguishable from myth.

3. Biology: creationism and biological impossibilities

The Bible gets biology wrong in structural ways:

Fixed “kinds” instead of common descent

Humans formed separately from animals

No understanding of genetics, evolution, extinction, deep time

Global bottlenecks that would have destroyed biodiversity

This is not a matter of missing details.
It reflects zero awareness of how life actually works.

4. Ethics: tribal morality, not universal compassion

Biblical ethics are deeply inconsistent and often morally indefensible:

Genocide endorsed

Slavery regulated, not abolished

Women treated as property

Children punished for ancestral sins

Infinite punishment for finite “belief errors”

These are not moral heights we failed to reach.
They are moral baselines we have since outgrown.

The best ethical moments in the Bible come from humans pushing against its own framework, not from divine command.

5. History: legendary development, not eyewitness rigor

The Bible fails basic historical standards:

Anonymous authorship

Decades-to-centuries-late composition

Theological agendas driving narrative

Contradictory accounts

No contemporary corroboration for central miracles

What we see is exactly what we see in myth formation everywhere else:
oral tradition → embellishment → canonization → dogma.

6. The pattern matters more than any single error

Any one mistake could be excused.

But the Bible fails:

astronomy,

physics,

biology,

ethics,

and history,

systematically, in the same direction, at the same level, with the same cultural fingerprints.

That pattern is diagnostic.

It looks exactly like what it is: a collection of human texts written by sincere but ignorant people trying to explain the world before science existed.

7. Why this matters morally

I care about reducing suffering and death, not about defending meaning or tradition.

That’s crucial.

Texts that:

misdescribe reality,

misassign blame,

moralize ignorance,

and sanctify error,

don’t just fail intellectually — they cause harm.

Religious certainty built on false premises has:

justified violence,

delayed medicine,

stigmatized illness,

excused cruelty,

and obstructed progress.

Rejecting that isn’t nihilism.
It’s ethical seriousness.

You are sadly mislead into darkness. There are 2 kinds of people on Earth. Those who love and serve the true living God=YHVH(Jehovah), the Father and the mislead that serve satans will.

[RBD]

1. Astronomy & Cosmology: pre-scientific mythology

The Bible reflects an ancient Near Eastern cosmology, not hidden advanced knowledge:

All other cosmology is mythology, that is a dim and skewed reflection of revealed Bible truth.

2Pe 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

No author of any mythology on earth, ever disclaims it's own mythological origin, by stating, "This is not a myth". Only true chroniclers deny writing fables.

This isn’t “metaphor misunderstood later.”

Nor is this creation in Gen 1, but only the bad readings of false accusers, beginning with the lie that the earth was created first, and then heaven:

Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The heaven is created first, and then the earth.

Flat or dome-covered Earth (the firmament)

The Bible never says the earth is flat, but a round circle:

Isa 40:21
Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Waters above the sky

The waters above the firmament, was the flooding of the created heaven and earth after creation:

Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

After the flood, God reestablishes the heaven and earth, by dividing the waters above and below with a firmament.

2Pe 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Peter is not only rebuking the scoffers of the Lord's return to earth, but also shows their ignorance of Gen 1, as though the created heaven and earth is the same as in the beginning, which it is not:

After the heaven and earth were created, then there was an overflow of water by the word of God of that old world. Afterward, the present heavens and earth were reestablished by the same word of God, beginning with the division of waters by a firmament. In that, the whole world of heaven and earth was overthrown by water, it could not be the latter flood, that was only over the whole earth.

The flood of the old heaven and the earth is consistent with dried riverbeds on the moon and mars.

Sun, moon, and stars placed inside the firmament

Gen 1:15
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

'In' the firmament is only a translational choice, being without preposition. Another acceptable choice is 'on' the firmament.

Dan 12:3
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

The Scripture does not say that the stars are in the firmament, but that the brightness of the firmament, is from the stars above shining through.

Light existing before light sources

The God that is light created the heaven and earth, was shining His light before the heaven and earth. After the heaven and earth was created and flooded with water, God then by His word shined His light from within His creation, to reestablish the earth and the heavens from the flood of waters.

Jhn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Gen 1:1
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light:

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

2Co 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

God the Word inhabited His own creation by commandment of God, in order to reestablish the foundation and boundaries thereof. Which He now commands every person to receive His true light to shine withing our own hearts, and reestablish us in the foundation of Jesus Christ.

Once gain, the natural mind does not believe in anything other than that which the natural eyes can see: That there is no true light, that is not natural light.

A being who created galaxies would not accidentally endorse Bronze Age sky myths.

The Bible endorses the Bible. Myths endorse myths.

2. Physics: magical causation and category errors

Matter appearing without physical mechanism

The pagan cosmology of an eternal uncreated universe, is endorsed by natural minds that reject creation of a finite and temporal universe.
They must also therefore endorse the pagan theology of a thinking universal Being, having the Universal Mind, and with uncreated deities of earth, sky, moon, stars, waters, woods, etc...

Instantaneous global floods
Heat, light, and motion without sources
Supernatural suspension of physical regularities without constraints
These aren’t exceptions explained by deeper laws.

Correct. They are supernatural events by the Spirit's creating power, that cannot be explained by natural law, neither to confirm nor deny.

The pagan natural mind can accept an uncreated living and thinking natural universe, but not an uncreated living intelligent Spirit, that creates the universe with natural law, which He also changes at will.

They are storytelling devices, indistinguishable from myth.

That's because all pagan cosmology and natural theology is myth.

3. Biology: creationism and biological impossibilities
The Bible gets biology wrong in structural ways:
Fixed “kinds” instead of common descent
Humans formed separately from animals

Arguing an unproven evolutionary theory, as an alternative to creation, is not a factual disproof of creation.

There is no factual proof that the natural universe is an uncreated living and thinking Being. Not is there any factual proof of an apple tree evolving into an orange tree, nor a fish into a bird, nor any animal into a man and woman.

Of course though, the body of a man and woman is shaped and formed from the same dust, as are all the animals of the earth. It's the eternal soul of man and woman, that is created in God's image with the Spirit's light and intelligence.

Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Natural pagan man is free to believe, that his intellect is from the immortal universal being of earth, sky, moon, and stars...That is, until the grave.

4. Ethics: tribal morality, not universal compassion

Biblical ethics are deeply inconsistent and often morally indefensible:

By moral man's own confession, man's morality is flawed. Not perfect righteousness nor true holiness. Therefore, man's morality cannot be eternal truth, unless his pagan theology of an uncreated but flawed natural and universal being is true.

Otherwise, by rejecting revealed eternal righteousness and truth, man can act as flawed gods on earth, but only until the grave.

Gen 3:4
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The Bible fails basic historical standards:
Anonymous authorship

Unproven authors does not prove faulty writing. There is no historical standard of knowing the writer's name, in order to accept the writing is factually true.

No one knows who inscribed the code of Hammurabi.

You're personal rule of historical review, is as bad as your personal morality.

Decades-to-centuries-late composition
Theological agendas driving narrative
Contradictory accounts

Unproven revisionism and accusations of error, does not prove faulty writing.

6. The pattern matters more than any single error. Any one mistake could be excused.

The Bible is not man's cosmological, theological, and mythological pattern, with excused mistakes.

One error in the Bible record, proves the Bible is not Authored by the One and only true God and Creator of heaven and earth. (With the heavens first created, and then earth.)

I care about reducing suffering and death, not about defending meaning or tradition.

Man's personal morality is proven to be inconsequential, when it can be easily rejected by others without consequence. Therefore, man's morality cannot compare nor judge perfect righteousness and true holiness.

Moralists can defend their own morality and judgment of others, but no one else has to care what they think. Which proves that what the moralist cares about is inconsequential to others who don't care.

It’s ethical seriousness.

Nor needs to be taken seriously.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #24]

When there are two opinions about good and right, why would your opinion be the correct one?

Disagreement alone does not establish subjectivity.

If two people disagree about whether the Earth orbits the Sun, that does not make heliocentrism “subjective.” It means one (or both) may be mistaken.

The real question is not “Are there two opinions?”
The real question is: Is there an objective fact of the matter independent of those opinions?

If morality is grounded in facts about harm, wellbeing, agency, and consequences, then moral claims can be objectively evaluated — even if people disagree about them. Genocide is always evil because it causes serious harm to a group of people. This is why the Biblical commands to commit genocide are objectively evil.

Disagreement shows people don't use consistent standards, i.e. treating all groups the same way. Instead, they favour their own group over others. This is what we see in the Bible. The Israelites favor themselves and concocted allegedly divine commands to justify their genocides, slavery, and land grabs. European Christians murdered millions of people all over the Earth and enslaved them and colonised them and extracted a huge amount of wealth from others. Such actions are wrong, no matter who does them and who commands them. No one is above ethics.

If you could do that clearly, you wouldn't need semantics and bad interpretations to do that.

Pointing to the original Hebrew and Greek words is not “bad interpretation.” It is responsible interpretation.

If a claim is:

• “God never tempts anyone” (James 1:13)
• Yet God places Abraham in a situation explicitly designed to test whether he will kill his son (Genesis 22:1)

Then examining whether “test” and “tempt” overlap in meaning is not semantics — it is analysis.

If a test is structured to induce someone to perform an act that would normally be morally wrong, then distinguishing “test” from “tempt” requires more than asserting the distinction.

You must show the moral difference, not merely assert it.

God didn't tempt Abraham to do something.

Genesis 22:1 says God tested Abraham.

James 1:13 says God tempts no one.

If the test involves commanding Abraham to kill his son — something God later condemns elsewhere — then we must ask:

• Is commanding someone to do evil not a form of moral provocation?
• If not, why not?

Simply denying the tension does not resolve it.

God caused pharaoh to do so, by demanding freeing of the slaves.

The text repeatedly states:

• Pharaoh hardened his heart.
• God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.

Exodus alternates between both statements.

If God ensures Pharaoh will not comply in order to display plagues, then Pharaoh’s freedom becomes instrumentalized.

If Pharaoh’s refusal is divinely ensured, then moral responsibility becomes complicated.

Saying “God demanded something” does not explain why the text says God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Delusion works, because people have rejected truth...

2 Thessalonians 2:11 states:

“God sends them a strong delusion.”

If God actively sends delusion, then confusion is not merely self-generated.

You can argue it is judicial — but it is still divine causation.

The question is not whether people rejected truth first.
The question is whether God actively causes deception afterward.

The text says He does.

In Exodus 24:9–10 they saw elohim, which can mean for example an angel.

The passage says:

“They saw the God of Israel.”

If you reinterpret “God” as “an angel,” that is an interpretive move — not what the text explicitly states.

Similarly:

Genesis 32:30 — “I have seen God face to face.”

Yes, the text mentions a man wrestling Jacob.
But Jacob explicitly identifies the being as God.

You are harmonizing by inserting theological distinctions not stated in the text.

That is precisely the point.

Changing what one is doing... is not the same as change of mind.

If God says:

“I will destroy this people.”

Then does not destroy them after intercession —

That is a change in declared intention.

You can redefine it as “anthropomorphic language,” but again that is harmonization — not what the text literally states.

And form is not the same as create...

Genesis 1 presents:

Animals → Humans.

Genesis 2:19 states:

God formed animals and brought them to Adam.

The plain sequential reading suggests formation after Adam.

To avoid contradiction, you must read it as:

“Had previously formed.”

But that is not what the Hebrew grammar most naturally implies.

You are again harmonizing by inserting unstated assumptions.

Doing it through Jesus, does not mean He did not create things by himself.

John 1:3 says:

“All things were made by him.”

Colossians 1:16 says:

“By him were all things created.”

John 5:30 says Jesus can do nothing of himself.

This raises theological complexity about agency and dependence.

It may be reconcilable within Trinitarian theology — but it is not trivial or straightforward.

The contradiction exists at the textual level.

Jesus was tempted by Satan, not by God.

Matthew 4:1:

“Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted.”

If the Spirit deliberately leads Jesus into a situation designed for temptation, then divine orchestration is involved.

Saying “Satan did it” ignores the initiating cause described in the verse.

There is no good reason to believe the science has the correct order.

Yes, there is reliable evidence. You keep denying facts. Modern cosmology, geology, and evolutionary biology are supported by:

• Radiometric dating
• Stellar physics
• Fossil stratification
• Genetic phylogenetics
• Observational astronomy

If Genesis states Earth before stars and light after Earth, that conflicts with stellar formation models.

You may reject science — but doing so requires rejecting an enormous body of converging empirical evidence.

It is not enough to say “science might be wrong.”

No real evidence for that.

When multiple passages require reinterpretation, contextual filtering, and theological scaffolding to avoid surface contradiction —

That itself is evidence of contradiction.

A perfectly clear, perfectly consistent divine document should not require extensive harmonization to preserve coherence.

Humans were created after the animals. But, after man was created, God formed different animals for Adam to see and name.

Genesis 2:19 does not say “different animals.”

It says:

“Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air.”

The text reads as a universal statement.

If you restrict it to a subset, that limitation is imposed — not stated.

Again, the contradiction disappears only after reinterpretation.

That is precisely the pattern being demonstrated.

You have not proven the existence of the Biblical God. Extraordinary metaphysical claims require proportionate evidence. You have not provided me with any evidence. I am not the one who claims that the Biblical God exists. You do. The burden of proof lies with the one asserting existence of Biblical God.

Pointing out textual inaccuracies and contradictions does not “prove God does not exist.” It shows the Bible is not internally flawless.

If the Bible is claimed to be inerrant, then even one genuine inaccuracy or contradiction is enough to refute the claim.

Dismissing every inaccuracy or contradiction as “twisting” does not address the substance of the issues.

It only asserts loyalty to your faith.

Here is the 8th contradiction from this list: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html

How many gods are there?
The Hebrew Scriptures sometimes claim that there is only one God, and sometimes that Yahweh is the greatest among many gods. Things get even more confusing in the New Testament, where Jesus and the Holy Ghost are also referred to as God. The concept of the "Holy Trinity" was created to address this contradiction, but the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost continue to divide Christians today.

There is only one god.
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Deuteronomy 4:35

The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Deuteronomy 4:39

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. Deuteronomy 6:4

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me. Deuteronomy 32:39

The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. 1 Kings 18:39

I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 43:10

I am the LORD, and there is none else ... There is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isaiah 44:8

I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. Isaiah 45:5-6, 45:21

I am God, and there is none else: I am God, and there is none like me. Isaiah 46:9

The Lord our God is one Lord. Mark 12:29

There is one God; and there is none other but he. Mark 12:32

That they might know thee the only true God. John 17:3

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him. 1 Corinthians 8:6

There are several gods.
In the book of Genesis, God used a plural pronoun to refer to himself (herself, itself, or themselves), implying that there is more than one god up there.

And God said, let us make man in our image. Genesis 1:26
And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Genesis 3:22

Let us go down, and there confound their language. Genesis 11:7

The Old Testament God is a "god of gods" who is worshiped by the other gods..

For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords. Deuteronomy 10:17
Worship him, all ye gods. Psalm 97:7

O give thanks unto the God of gods. Psalm 136:2

No other god is like him.

Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord. Psalm 86:8
He is better than the other gods.

Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11
Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. Exodus 20:3-5

What God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works? Deuteronomy 3:24

Great is our God above all gods. 2 Chronicles 2:5

Our Lord is above all gods. Psalm 135:5

The other gods will die someday.

The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. Jeremiah 10:11
The Hebrew God judges the other gods.

And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment. Exodus 12:12
Upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments. Numbers 33:4

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82:1

And will punish them.

I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods. Jeremiah 46:25
The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth. Zephaniah 2:11

He is a jealous God (whose name is Jealous). So he forbids us to "go after" or worship any of his competitors.

For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14
Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you.) Deuteronomy 6:14-15

Thou shalt not ... go after other gods to serve them. Deuteronomy 28:14

If you give God glory, he'll go easy on you and all your other gods.

Ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. 1 Samuel 6:5
And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. Jeremiah 25:6

But you must fear God more than all the other gods.

The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. 1 Chronicles 16:25
For the Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. Psalm 96:4

Don't sacrfifice to any of the other gods. (Or God will kill you.)

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus 22:20
Don't put any of the other gods before him.

Thou shalt have none other gods before me. Deuteronomy 5:7
Don't make a covenant with them.

Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. Exodus 23:32
Don't burn incense to them.

I will utter my judgments against them ... who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods. Jeremiah 1:16
Or even mention their names.

Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. Exodus 23:13
Put away your father's gods.

Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. Joshua 24:14
And stay away from the god named Chemosh.

Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? Judges 11:24
But don't revile the other gods.

Thou shalt not revile the gods. Exodus 22:28
Other people served other gods (as did Abraham's father Terah).

Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. Joshua 24:2
And a witch once saw gods going up to heaven.

And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 1 Samuel 28:13
Always remember that people are gods too. (Jesus used this when he was accused of making himself a god.)

I have said, Ye are gods. Psalm 82:6
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:33-34

And the three gods in heaven are really only one god. (Don't worry about this one too much. It's a mystery.)

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

[Compassionist]

[Replying to servant1 in post #25]

Neither the Biblical God, nor the Biblical Satan exist. Please provide incontrovertible evidence for their existence.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to RBD in post #26]

All other cosmology is mythology… Only true chroniclers deny writing fables.

Simply asserting “ours is true, all others are myth” is not evidence — it is circular reasoning.

Many religious texts deny being false. The Qur’an denies being fiction. The Book of Mormon denies being fiction. Ancient historians often claimed divine authority. A text claiming “this is not a myth” does not make it historically or scientifically true. It only tells us what the author believed.

If self-disclaimer were proof, then mutually contradictory religions would all be true simultaneously — which is impossible.

Gen 1:1 — The heaven is created first, and then the earth.

Genesis 1:1 states both are created “in the beginning.” It does not establish a scientific sequence consistent with modern cosmology.

More importantly, the chapter’s structure still reflects ancient cosmology:
• A solid firmament dividing waters above and below
• Waters existing above the sky
• Earth prior to sun, moon, and stars

Reordering one clause does not remove the larger cosmological framework.

The Bible never says the earth is flat, but a round circle (Isa 40:22).

A “circle” (Hebrew: chug) does not mean a sphere. A circle describes a flat disk. The verse also describes the heavens stretched like a tent — which aligns with Ancient Near Eastern dome cosmology.

If Isaiah intended spherical astronomy, it would be the only clear spherical cosmology in the entire Ancient Near East — yet no such scientific tradition emerged from it. That strongly suggests poetic cosmological language, not advanced astronomy.

The waters above the firmament were a flood of a prior world.

That interpretation is not in Genesis 1 itself. It is a later harmonization attempt.

Genesis describes:
• Waters above
• Waters below
• A firmament dividing them

This matches standard ANE cosmology found in Babylonian and other regional texts.

Appealing to dried riverbeds on Mars does not support a global cosmic flood. Planetary geology shows evidence of ancient localized water activity — not a universal supernatural deluge.

“In the firmament” is translational choice.

The Hebrew phrase be-raqia normally means “in” or “within.” Even if translated “on,” the cosmological picture remains geocentric and observational.

Nothing in Genesis suggests awareness of:
• Billions of galaxies
• Stellar nuclear fusion
• Planetary formation
• Deep cosmic timescales

It reflects how the sky appears to human observers who don't have advanced tools e.g. space shuttles, space stations, satellites in space, telescopes in space, etc.

Light before the sun is God’s light.

That is theological interpretation layered onto the text. There is no evidence that the Biblical God exists and has light.

Genesis presents light as part of a structured six-day material ordering. It does not describe photon physics or divine radiance outside spacetime.

Invoking supernatural light avoids the scientific issue rather than addressing it. If any inconsistency can be solved by saying “God did it supernaturally,” the model becomes unfalsifiable — and indistinguishable from mythic narrative.

They are supernatural events… cannot be explained by natural law.

If events are defined as beyond natural explanation, then they cannot be tested, evaluated, or distinguished from legend.

The issue is not whether supernatural events are possible.
The issue is whether the text demonstrates knowledge beyond its historical environment.

It does not.

Evolution is unproven theory.

Evolution is an evidence-based fact. In science, “theory” does not mean speculation. It means a well-supported explanatory framework.

Common descent is supported by:
• Fossil succession
• Genetic homology
• Endogenous retroviruses
• Chromosome fusion in humans (Chromosome 2)
• Observed speciation events

No biologist claims apples evolve into oranges in one step. Evolution operates through gradual modification over deep time.

Rejecting evolution does not strengthen Genesis; it simply denies a robust empirical model.

Evolution is not “just a theory” in the everyday sense. In science, a theory is a well-supported explanatory framework. Evolution is supported by multiple independent, converging lines of evidence from genetics, paleontology, anatomy, embryology, biogeography, and direct observation.

Here is the evidence — clearly and without exaggeration.

1. The Fossil Record (Predictive, Ordered, Transitional)

What we see:

Fossils appear in a consistent chronological order.
Simpler life appears before complex life.
Transitional forms exist between major groups.

Examples:

Tiktaalik roseae — fish with limb-like bones.
Archaeopteryx lithographica — dinosaur with feathers and wings.
Australopithecus afarensis — intermediate between apes and modern humans.
Ambulocetus natans — walking whale ancestor.

These were not random discoveries. Some were predicted before being found (e.g., Tiktaalik in Devonian rock between fish and amphibians).

If species were separately created, we would not expect:

Clear transitional gradients
Predictable fossil layering
Nested patterns over millions of years

Yet we see exactly that.

2. Genetics (The Strongest Evidence)

Genetics is overwhelming evidence.

A. DNA Similarity

Humans and chimpanzees share ~98–99% DNA similarity.
The pattern of similarity matches predicted evolutionary trees.

B. Human Chromosome 2 Fusion

Humans have 23 chromosome pairs.
Other great apes have 24.

Human chromosome 2 shows clear signs of:

Telomere-to-telomere fusion
Vestigial centromere

This matches the prediction that humans share ancestry with apes.

C. Endogenous Retroviruses (ERVs)

Retroviruses insert DNA randomly into genomes.

Humans and chimps share identical ERV insertions at identical genome locations.

The odds of that happening independently are astronomically small.

The simplest explanation: common ancestry.

3. Observed Evolution (Not Theoretical — Measured)

Evolution is not just historical. It is observed.

A. Antibiotic Resistance

Bacteria evolve resistance through mutation and selection.

This is direct, repeatable evolution.

B. Viral Evolution

SARS-CoV-2 variants (e.g., COVID-19) evolve measurably over time.

C. Speciation Observed

New species have been documented forming in:

Plants (polyploidy)
Fruit flies
Cichlid fish
Galápagos finches

The diversification of Darwin's finches shows measurable beak changes in real time.

4. Biogeography (Geography Matches Descent)

Species distribution follows evolutionary history.

Examples:

Marsupials dominate Australia.
Lemurs are isolated in Madagascar.
Island species resemble nearby mainland species.

This pattern matches continental drift and common descent.

It does not match random separate creation.

5. Comparative Anatomy (Nested Design Patterns)

Homologous structures (same bone pattern in bat wings, whale flippers, human arms).
Vestigial structures (whale pelvis bones).
Recurrent laryngeal nerve in giraffes — inefficient routing consistent with descent.

Evolution predicts inheritance with modification.
We see inheritance with modification.

6. Embryology

Vertebrate embryos share early-stage similarities.

This matches shared ancestry.

7. Radiometric Dating

Independent radioactive decay methods converge on:

Earth ≈ 4.54 billion years
Life evolving over billions of years

Different isotopes cross-confirm each other.

8. Predictive Power

Evolution predicted:

Transitional fossils (Tiktaalik found exactly where predicted)
Genetic similarities
Chromosome fusion
Viral mutation patterns

Scientific theories are strong when they predict findings before discovery.

Evolution has done this repeatedly.

Why Scientists Say Evolution Is a Fact

“Evolution” has two meanings:

1. Fact: Populations change over time.
2. Theory: Natural selection, mutation, drift explain how.

The fact of evolution is as well-established as:

Gravity
Germ theory
Plate tectonics

What Would Falsify Evolution?

Evolution would be seriously challenged if we found:

Mammals in Cambrian rock
DNA that violates nested hierarchy
Human genes unrelated to other life
Fossil layers randomly mixed

We do not find these.

Instead, every new dataset strengthens the framework.

Evolution is supported by:

• Fossils
• Genetics
• Direct observation
• Biogeography
• Anatomy
• Embryology
• Radiometric dating
• Predictive success

It is one of the most thoroughly evidenced frameworks in science.

Man’s morality cannot judge perfect righteousness.

If morality cannot be evaluated, then calling anything “perfect righteousness” is meaningless.

We evaluate moral claims by consequences:
• Does it reduce suffering?
• Does it increase well-being?
• Does it promote fairness and compassion?

If a text commands genocide, slavery, or eternal torment, those claims can be ethically evaluated regardless of their source.

Appealing to authority does not resolve moral conflict. It only shifts the burden.

Anonymous authorship does not disprove truth.

Correct — but anonymity reduces evidential weight.

Historical standards consider:
• Dating proximity to events
• Independent corroboration
• Manuscript transmission
• Archaeological consistency

The Bible must be evaluated by the same standards as all ancient texts. It cannot be exempt from scrutiny while simultaneously claiming historical authority.

One error would prove it not authored by God.

If a text claims divine perfection, even one demonstrable error proves it is not authored by a perfect God.

If instead we say “apparent errors are harmonizable,” then the claim shifts from demonstrable perfection to interpretive flexibility — which every religious tradition also claims.

Man’s morality is inconsequential if others reject it.

By that logic, any moral system rejected by someone becomes meaningless.

Moral truth is not measured by universal agreement. It is measured by rational coherence and consequences.

If reducing suffering matters — and suffering is a real, measurable phenomenon — then ethical reasoning matters regardless of who ignores it.

The Core Issue

The question is not:
“Can theology reinterpret problematic passages?”

The question is:
“Does the Bible demonstrate knowledge beyond its historical context?”

On astronomy, physics, geology, biology, ethics, and historiography, it does not.

It reflects:
• Ancient cosmology
• Pre-scientific biology
• Tribal moral frameworks
• Theological narrative shaping

That does not mean it has no literary or cultural value.
It means it does not function as a divinely authored scientific document.

Asserting that all disagreement is “pagan myth” does not engage the evidence — it simply dismisses it.

Ethical seriousness requires that we examine claims critically, even sacred ones.

That is not hostility.
It is intellectual integrity.

[servant1]

[Replying to servant1 in post #25]

Neither the Biblical God, nor the Biblical Satan exist. Please provide incontrovertible evidence for their existence.

His creation proves it. Your darkness proves satan exists.