The Christian Rationale for Retaining Belief

[POI]

For debate:

1) Aside from the claims for a Jesus resurrection, what otherwise falsifiable (events/claims) from the Bible must also be demonstrated accurate and correct to retain faith?
2) If any of the above stated/given (events/claims) were to instead be falsified, (to your own personal satisfaction), would you then logically denounce your Christian faith, or, would you instead pivot/adject and remain in faith?
3) Are you willing to have any of these expressed/given (claims/events), from the Bible, challenged?

[bjs1]

1) Aside from the claims for a Jesus resurrection, what other (events/claims) from the Bible must also be demonstrated accurate and correct to retain faith?

I’m not sure what you mean by “demonstrated accurate and correct” in this context. I have found that people can always move the goalposts in such a way that they are able to reject beliefs they oppose. However, if you want claims/events from the Bible that are essential to the Christian faith beyond the resurrection, then I would say:

*There is God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

*This God created the universe.

*After his resurrection, Jesus ascended into heaven.

*Jesus sat down at the right hand of God the Father.

*The Holy Spirit lives within the disciples of Jesus Christ.

*Jesus’ disciples are forgiven and redeemed by his death and resurrection.

*At an unknown time and date, God the Son will return to judge the living and the dead.

*Those who have put their faith in Christ will be raised to eternal life at the end of this age.


I don’t want this post to get too long, so I hope that gives you something to work with.

2) If any of the above stated/given (events/claims) were to instead be falsified, (to your own personal satisfaction), would you then logically denounce your Christian faith, or, would you instead pivot/adject and remain in faith?

Yes, I would say that if one of these could be proven false then the Christian faith would fall.

3) Are you willing to have any of these expressed/given (claims/events), from the Bible, challenged?

As long as you are willing to bring a challenge with evidence or reason, then I say: Challenge away.

[POI]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #2]

Thank you for shedding necessary light to the OP. I've added a crucial key word to question (1). Alternatively, all your given options/additions are basically unfalsifiable to challenge. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[bjs1]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #2]

Thank you for shedding necessary light to the OP. I've added a crucial key word to question (1). Alternatively, all your given options/additions are basically unfalsifiable to challenge. Thanks for the enlightenment.

This response seems like a bit of a cheat. You asked for essential Christian beliefs, and I gave them. But then you seemed to say, “I can’t prove those wrong. Give me something else.”

Honestly, I’m not sure where this thread can go from here. Along with the incarnation/death/resurrection of Jesus, I have given you what 98% of Christians throughout history have said are their essential beliefs. My comments come right out of the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds. There are other beliefs that are important, but I can’t think of another biblical doctrine that, if proven false, would cause me to denounce Christianity on the whole.

Best of luck, but if you can’t address what Christians believe then I don’t see how to move this debate forward.

[POI]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #2]

Thank you for shedding necessary light to the OP. I've added a crucial key word to question (1). Alternatively, all your given options/additions are basically unfalsifiable to challenge. Thanks for the enlightenment.

This response seems like a bit of a cheat. You asked for essential Christian beliefs, and I gave them. But then you seemed to say, “I can’t prove those wrong. Give me something else.”

LOL! I'm sorry you feel this way. Believers come from all walks of life. Some are Biblical literalists, some are not. But I was under the impression that at least some of your given believed upon claims would also include falsifiable claim(s), like (for example) -- "the flood", "the Exodus", etc etc etc. I guess I just assumed that some of your beliefs hinged upon things a skeptic could ACTUALLY challenge? I guess not? Thus, pardon my assumption.

There are other beliefs that are important, but I can’t think of another biblical doctrine that, if proven false, would cause me to denounce Christianity on the whole.

Are any of them actually challengeable in a debate? The ones you've provided, thus far, are not. Just like, for the Muslim, I cannot challenge the claim that "Muhammad flew to Heaven on a winged horse ~1300 years ago."

[bjs1]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #2]

Thank you for shedding necessary light to the OP. I've added a crucial key word to question (1). Alternatively, all your given options/additions are basically unfalsifiable to challenge. Thanks for the enlightenment.

This response seems like a bit of a cheat. You asked for essential Christian beliefs, and I gave them. But then you seemed to say, “I can’t prove those wrong. Give me something else.”

LOL! I'm sorry you feel this way. Believers come from all walks of life. Some are Biblical literalists, some are not.

Literalists exist, but they are the minority. The extremes of “It’s all literal” and “None of it is literal,” are just that - extremes. Most people rightly fall in the middle.

But I was under the impression that at least some of your given believed upon claims would also include falsifiable claim(s), like (for example) -- "the flood", "the Exodus", etc etc etc.

Many Christians do believe that events like, as you say, “‘the flood’, ‘the Exodus’, etc etc etc.” took place. However, these are not essential beliefs. I’m not sure I could even call them important belief. If you could prove the flood false, then virtually no Christians would denounce all of Christianity as false.

I guess I just assumed that some of your beliefs hinged upon things a skeptic could ACTUALLY challenge? I guess not? Thus, pardon my assumption.

We all make false assumptions at times. I can understand that you made false assumptions about what Christians believe.

I notice that you then brought up the winged horse from Islam, which as far as I know is not an essential doctrine for Muslims. If it could be proven false, Islam would not suffer in the least.

If I may so bold, perhaps it would be worth your time to learn the basics of what religious people believe. Find a local pastor, priest, or Imam (not online) and ask them about their faith. If you can approach it with the goal of understanding instead of debating then you will probably gain a fair bit of knowledge about what religious people believe.

[OneJack]

For debate:

1) Aside from the claims for a Jesus resurrection, what otherwise falsifiable (events/claims) from the Bible must also be demonstrated accurate and correct to retain faith?
2) If any of the above stated/given (events/claims) were to instead be falsified, (to your own personal satisfaction), would you then logically denounce your Christian faith, or, would you instead pivot/adject and remain in faith?
3) Are you willing to have any of these expressed/given (claims/events), from the Bible, challenged?

FYI, Faith that is anchored and rooted in the bible is not the ‘Christian Faith,’ which [in reality] is anchored and rooted only in the real and forever living Christ Jesus alone.

[OneJack]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #2]

There is God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

How did you come up with this notion of the Trinity about God? Have you talked to the Almighty God?

[POI]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #2]

Thank you for shedding necessary light to the OP. I've added a crucial key word to question (1). Alternatively, all your given options/additions are basically unfalsifiable to challenge. Thanks for the enlightenment.

This response seems like a bit of a cheat. You asked for essential Christian beliefs, and I gave them. But then you seemed to say, “I can’t prove those wrong. Give me something else.”

LOL! I'm sorry you feel this way. Believers come from all walks of life. Some are Biblical literalists, some are not.

Literalists exist, but they are the minority. The extremes of “It’s all literal” and “None of it is literal,” are just that - extremes. Most people rightly fall in the middle.

But I was under the impression that at least some of your given believed upon claims would also include falsifiable claim(s), like (for example) -- "the flood", "the Exodus", etc etc etc.

Many Christians do believe that events like, as you say, “‘the flood’, ‘the Exodus’, etc etc etc.” took place. However, these are not essential beliefs. I’m not sure I could even call them important belief. If you could prove the flood false, then virtually no Christians would denounce all of Christianity as false.

I guess I just assumed that some of your beliefs hinged upon things a skeptic could ACTUALLY challenge? I guess not? Thus, pardon my assumption.

We all make false assumptions at times. I can understand that you made false assumptions about what Christians believe.

I notice that you then brought up the winged horse from Islam, which as far as I know is not an essential doctrine for Muslims. If it could be proven false, Islam would not suffer in the least.

If I may so bold, perhaps it would be worth your time to learn the basics of what religious people believe. Find a local pastor, priest, or Imam (not online) and ask them about their faith. If you can approach it with the goal of understanding instead of debating then you will probably gain a fair bit of knowledge about what religious people believe.

Thanks for the 'lecture' and the gaslighting. However, interlocutors, including the owner of this forum website, has stated that if the Exodus was proven to be false, it would present as a problem. But hey,.. you do you boh

[bjs1]

Thanks for the 'lecture' and the gaslighting. However, interlocutors, including the owner of this forum website, has stated that if the Exodus was proven to be false, it would present as a problem. But hey,.. you do you boh

“A problem…” for what? Having been in debates with this forum’s owner I would be surprised if he said that the entire Christian hangs on the Exodus.

You may call it “gaslighting” if you wish. As I have said before on this site, when non-Christians say that they know what Christians believe better than Christians do, then no amount of evidence or reason will ever change their minds.