Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9571
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
1) So Saul was a top Jew and would never blaspheme against YHWH.

Historical Background: Saul (later Paul) was a Pharisee of the strictest sect, born a Roman citizen but raised in the Jewish tradition of Tarsus. He studied directly under Gamaliel, the grandson of Hillel and one of the most revered rabbis in the Sanhedrin (Acts 22:3; cf. Acts 5:34-39). Gamaliel's school emphasized meticulous Torah observance, and Saul describes himself as "advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers" (Galatians 1:14, emphasis added).
Zeal Against "Blasphemy": As a Pharisee, Saul's mission was to purge Israel of anything that could defile the covenant or dishonor YHWH. Blasphemy was the ultimate Jewish taboo—punishable by stoning (Leviticus 24:16; cf. the trial of Jesus in Mark 14:64). Saul hunted perceived blasphemers: "I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death... I went to foreign cities to imprison many... I cast my vote against them when they were put to death" (Acts 26:10-11; cf. Acts 8:1-3; 9:1-2). He saw himself as God's enforcer, breathing "threats and murder against the disciples" (Acts 9:1).
Key Implication: A man like Saul would never intentionally blaspheme YHWH. His actions were the opposite: hyper-vigilant defense of God's honor. If he thought he was serving God, he couldn't have been blaspheming—unless his target wasn't just a "false messiah" but God incarnate.

2) Paul's Post-Conversion Confession—"I Was Once a Blasphemer" (1 Timothy 1:13)
The Text in Context: In 1 Timothy 1:12-14, Paul thanks Christ for his mercy, then pivots to his past: "Even though I was once a blasphemer (blasphēmos) and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly..."This isn't casual regret; it's a radical re-evaluation. Paul isn't confessing generic sins—he's using loaded Jewish terminology. Blasphēmia in the Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) and rabbinic thought always targets God directly: cursing His name, attributing evil to Him, or rejecting His revelation (e.g., Numbers 15:30; 2 Kings 19:4).
Cross-reference Acts 9:4-5 (Saul's Damascus Road encounter): Jesus asks, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Saul's reply—"Who are you, Lord?"—reveals the divine identity. Jesus identifies as the one Saul is attacking.

3) The Twist: As Saul, he believed he was honoring YHWH by crushing the "Nazarene sect" (Acts 24:5). But now, he sees those actions as blasphemy against God. Why? Because the early church's message was that Jesus is YHWH's divine presence (e.g., Jesus' claims in John 8:58; 10:30). Persecuting Christians = persecuting the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27), which Paul now equates with assaulting God Himself.

4)The Paradox Resolved: How could a Gamaliel-trained Pharisee blaspheme without knowing it? Only if his "zeal" was misdirected at the wrong target—God Himself in the person of Jesus. Paul isn't saying he slandered YHWH's name verbally; he's saying his violent opposition to Jesus was, in truth, reviling the divine Son. This mirrors Jesus' warning: "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven" (Matthew 12:32). Paul's ignorance (v. 13) echoes this—his "unbelief" blinded him to Jesus' deity.

How could a devout, elite Pharisee like Saul—trained under Gamaliel, fiercely zealous for the honor of YHWH, and utterly committed to stamping out anything he saw as blasphemy against God—ever describe his own past actions as blasphemy (1 Timothy 1:13)?He wasn't casually sinning or attacking some random group. As Saul, he believed he was defending God's name by persecuting Christians—breathing threats and murder against them (Acts 9:1), approving their executions (Acts 26:10), and hunting them to foreign cities. A man of his background and training would never knowingly blaspheme YHWH; that was the very crime he was trying to eradicate!So how can Paul, looking back, honestly call himself a 'blasphemer' unless the one he was actually opposing—Jesus—was God Himself?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

BruceLeiter
Scholar
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:39 pm
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #41

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to 1213 in post #40]

If I were relying on my human logic, @1213, I would reject the idea that the one God is also three Persons and the thought that Jesus is fully God and fully human. However, God's thoughts and logic are far above and beyond mine, and God's Word reveals those mysteries. Therefore, I believe them.

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. 
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #42

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
BruceLeiter wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2026 11:42 am [Replying to tam in post #33]

Jesus use of "ego eimi" is uniquely divine, @tam, since his use is the only one that uses a metaphor comparing himself with tangible objects like the only door to the sheep pen, people like David's "good Shepherd," and spiritual realities such as resurrection life of which he is the Source ("I am the resurrection and the life"). The sum total of his references leads to the required conclusion that he is claiming to be fully divine, as he is also fully human.
Just because Christ used the words 'ego eimi' along with a metaphor (such as 'gate'), does not mean that He is claiming to be God [YHWH].

There is just reason to draw that conclusion.

You can see that other people said 'ego eimi' and it did not mean they were claiming to be God. Clearly the grammar of those words is not a claim to be God.

You can also see that the people standing there in person and listening to Christ did not conclude that He was claiming to be [YHWH]. Not even the apostles came to that conclusion.

Instead, this doctrine of the "I am" statements is something that men came up with much much later. But it is not something that Christ taught. It is not even something that the apostles taught.


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #43

Post by tam »

Peace again to you,
BruceLeiter wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2026 11:47 am [Replying to tam in post #33]

So, do you disagree with me that only God can give life in any form, @tam? Sure, he uses a husband and a wife as his means to produce a baby, but the Bible says that God is the ultimate Source of all life. And Jesus is claiming to be God with his Father and the Spirit, who is the one God in three Persons and who gives life--the Father through Jesus by the Spirit, the way he does all his actions.
I can't agree with you because your words (only God can give life) appear to disagree with Christ who said that the Father granted the Son to have life in Himself, just as the Father has life in Himself:

Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.


Therefore, both the Father and the Son have life in themselves. Not because they are both [YHWH], but because the Father [YHWH] granted His Son (Christ) to have life in himself as well.


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

BruceLeiter
Scholar
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:39 pm
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #44

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #42]

Peace to you too, @tam. His usage was unique. He says, "I am the resurrection and the life." Only God gives permanent life. Thus, he claims to be God with the Father and the Spirit. He claims to be "the good Shepherd," though he has been a carpenter, to claim that he is David's Shepherd (Yahweh). You know these references, I'm sure.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #45

Post by tam »

BruceLeiter wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2026 1:32 pm [Replying to tam in post #42]

Peace to you too, @tam.
Thank you!
His usage was unique. He says, "I am the resurrection and the life." Only God gives permanent life. Thus, he claims to be God with the Father and the Spirit. He claims to be "the good Shepherd," though he has been a carpenter, to claim that he is David's Shepherd (Yahweh). You know these references, I'm sure.
Except He did not make these claims, Bruce.

Men are making these claims. Men are putting words in His mouth. Words He never said.


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

BruceLeiter
Scholar
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:39 pm
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #46

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #45]

How do you know for sure, @tam? John, who was close to Jesus, heard him say those words and wrote them down at God's inspiration. In addition, it was a largely-listening culture, so they could remember the words. On top of that, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to help his followers to remember them. Matthew was an educated tax collector, while Luke was a doctor, and they were all educated in Sabbath school.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #47

Post by tam »

Peace to you Bruce,
BruceLeiter wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2026 4:30 pm [Replying to tam in post #45]

How do you know for sure, @tam? John, who was close to Jesus, heard him say those words and wrote them down at God's inspiration.


The disciple Christ loved heard Christ say "I am the Truth, I am the Life, I am the Good Shepherd...." The disciple Christ loved wrote THAT down.

The disciple Christ loved did not hear Christ say "I am God with the Father and the Spirit" or "I am David's Shepherd Yahweh." The disciple Christ loved did not write those words down because Christ did not say those words.

Those are the words that men (much later men) are putting in His mouth.


Peace again.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

BruceLeiter
Scholar
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:39 pm
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #48

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #47]

I also did not say that he wrote those exact words, @tam. I hope that you have some very good reasons for your false interpretations of the Bible. You'll have to explain yourself when you meet Jesus face-to-face.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #49

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
BruceLeiter wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2026 5:48 pm [Replying to tam in post #47]

I also did not say that he wrote those exact words, @tam. I hope that you have some very good reasons for your false interpretations of the Bible.
I am a little confused at your statement. What is it that you think I interpreted?

Christ said "I am God's Son."

Simple and straightforward. I take Him at His word.
You'll have to explain yourself when you meet Jesus face-to-face.
Why would anyone need to wait? Why not ask Him (Jaheshua) and listen to Him now?

He is the Living Word of God. He is alive. He speaks. His sheep listen to His voice. He knows His sheep and calls them by name.

**

My Lord has taught me to remain in Him. To listen to Him. Not to worry about what men teach (and men teach a lot that neither Christ nor God teach.) I am just to remain in Him and listen to Him.

He is the Truth. Not men, not religion (not even the bible, which can have errors due to the false pen of the scribes.) Christ, Himself, is the Truth and the One to whom God told us to listen.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

OneJack
Guru
Posts: 2021
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:57 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #50

Post by OneJack »

[Replying to tam in post #49]
He is the Truth. Not men, not religion (not even the bible, which can have errors due to the false pen of the scribes.) Christ, Himself, is the Truth and the One to whom God told us to listen.
Christ is, indeed, the Truth because He is the Almighty God to whom all truth only resides. And His name is Jesus, or Immanuel, or Mighty God, or Eternal Father - the truth that the ‘small still voice’ spirit being keeps on drawing you away from since the beginning he has deceived you, Tammy.

Post Reply