Land Before Time-- Genesis Revisited

[Mr E]

Have you ever paused to ponder the Creation Story simply on the basis of story-telling? It's a beautiful telling of origins as experienced, but not witnessed by the story teller. In fact, Genesis is the story about the story no one knows. The story we have and the story we know is attributed to Moses, but it is not some sort of play by play chronology of events, nor is it a literal depiction or 'as it happened' description of details that include the what, why, when and how. Rather it's Moses retelling a story he himself was taught, or something that came to him in dreams, while communing with the spiritual realm, or perhaps it was a widely known understanding at the time- a kind of legend passed down to him and everyone else, that he then put to parchment as it were-- and recorded for posterity, which we can now enjoy.

A story it is, and though it begins with "In the beginning" that is just the beginning of a story that truly begins before the beginning described. It hearkens to a time before, unknown and unmeasured where the spirit realm pre-existed as a metaphorical 'land before time' even though there was no land at all, nor anything "physical" that we can relate to. It was a "world" without form, 'the land' of the elohim and it's there, in this land before time, this spiritual world, where the story as told by Moses, begins--

In the beginning, elohim created the heavens and the earth.

This thread will be a conversational look at the story that has become so well known, yet so poorly understood. Genesis revisited.

[Mr E]

Rolling and rambling on...

There is a perspective that the Genesis story is offered as a narrative describing a heavenly (spiritual) realm, rather than a strict account of physical creation. The paradise (garden of God) is a spiritual realm, as God is Himself spirt, -- an elohim, or divine being, and His dwelling place is 'naturally' spiritual, not physical at all. The "people" in the story then become "spiritual" beings in their first order, and their casting out of Eden is understood as 'the Fall' in like manner to when the angels rebelled in heaven and were cast down to the physical realm of earth.

It's a good theory.

It's also a part of what early Jewish scholars and philosophers like Philo of Alexandria describe in their writings, and what prophets like Ezekiel reference, and dreamers like John of Patmos see glimpses of and relate to us from the perspective of witnesses to that spiritual realm. The reality is that other realm, while the physical world we know is but a reflection, or image of those things above. And that becomes an introduction to the duality of all nature-- a representation of reality, rather than reality itself. There are well-accredited physicists exploring this idea of our world as essentially a simulation, or projection-- almost as a mirror image of something 'other.' Another theory and another attempt to explain things we don't yet fully understand, so we surmise and speculate and suppose. That's really all I'm trying to do here-- revisit the creation account, and suppose.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to Mr E in post #21]

I thank you, again, for your love for truth and for your desire to see me come to it, Mr E. I look forward to the other thoughts you will share on this subject.

[Mr E]

[Replying to Mr E in post #21]

I thank you, again, for your love for truth and for your desire to see me come to it, Mr E. I look forward to the other thoughts you will share on this subject.

And I appreciate your gentle spirit and willingness to have a conversation. I'm not so much of a gentle man at times, but that shouldn't stop me from being a gentleman. Thank you for this note. I look forward to sharing as I'm able and to our future discussions.

[Mr E]

I mentioned other writers.

Setting aside Enoch for the moment, though 1 Enoch was certainly well known and is referenced in scripture several times-- almost a dozen copies of it were among the parchments found with the Dead Sea Scroll collection, 2 Enoch was not found at the same place and time, and may have been a first century composition. Both books provide an interesting look into history and pre-history from the Jewish perspective particularly, as do those writings of the ancient Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria. The 1963 discovery at Qasr Ibrim in Egypt removed all doubts regarding the text being some sort of medieval forgery.

From scripture, we get other confirmations of this elohim 'host of heaven' in many places. Famously, Ezekiel begins his account in the first chapter and he goes into great detail about what he saw when the word came to him. It's a good read and describes in detail a heavenly scene, where God is not at all alone. It should not come as a surprise to anyone that he does not need to talk to himself in Genesis.

Isaiah 6 I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up..... And he describes him as the Lord of hosts-- literally the head of a mass/large group.
The voice of the Lord asks- "Whom shall I send and who will go for us?

1 Kings 22- Michiah writes: Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

And finally Psalm 82-- God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

We can know who, or at least what the elohim are that the beginning of our book of beginnings begins with. In the beginning elohim created the heavens and the earth. Yahweh, an elohim-- he created man. And not only man, because Genesis 2 goes into specific things that-- now mentioned by name for the first time that Yahweh elohim specifically did.

[Mr E]

Compare>>Genesis 1:2 (the coming of the light and the first day) with Genesis 1:4 (the creation of the sun and the moon on the fourth day)

Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water. God said, “Let there be light.” And there was light! God saw that the light was good, so God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” There was evening, and there was morning, marking the first day.

vs

God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be signs to indicate seasons and days and years, and let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.” It was so. God made two great lights —the greater light to rule over the day and the lesser light to rule over the night.

The natural assumption is that when the elohim created the heavens and the earth and called for light-- that would be associated with the sun, but as we can see from the text there are two separate events at two different times. And..... the light arrives before the sun.... so what is the source of the light?

“I am the light of the world! The one who follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.” (John 8)

And... of the Christ, it's written:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, or all things in heaven and on earth were created in him—all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions,30 whether principalities or powers—all things were created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and all things are held together in him. (Col 1)


It's fascinating to ponder because the light is there, present at creation, obviously before the sun contains it. In fact, it is more proper to consider the sun a container, or vessel that hold the light-- rather than being the light itself. And even more interesting, our library collection ends as it begins-- with light, independent of the sun.

The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its lamp is the Lamb. (Rev 21)

[Mr E]

It's not like that.

That's what Jesus said when referencing the elohim. When asked about people who die and are resurrected from the dead he said:

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. (They will be like the elohim).

It gives us much needed context that helps us understand Genesis-- those elohim-angels in heaven that are there in and before, the beginning. And it helps us understand what happened when everything 'went south' when the angels "fell," and when they were cast "down" from their place in the realm 'above.'

Gen 5-- When elohim created man, he made them male and female. He blessed them and named them 'adam' (man).

Gen 6-- When adam (mankind) began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God (ben elohim) saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose.

But angels-- elohim offspring don't marry. They were not created male and female with physical bodies, and the divine spirits in heaven do not "give birth" to flesh. Spirit gives birth to spirit, and it's flesh that gives birth to flesh. A duality as well as a distinction between the two realms, which Jesus points toward. 'It's not like that.'

What happens is the angels become enamored with those created likenesses of themselves below. They become 'watchers' hyper-focused on these fascinating creations, these little images that look and behave in whatever manner they might imagine. They can be influenced, guided, directed, commanded... and at some point the Father gives them over to those angels lusting after them. It's the fallen ones who marry and 'take wives' for themselves. And when they fall, they become flesh. Physical. That's how it works. That's how it is. Man can ascend in spirit and enter the spiritual realm as spirit, or angels (elohim) can descend into the physical realm and become flesh. The duality is the distinction. On earth, we have these containers-- vessels, tents, houses, temples.... like clothes to put on that cover us and that contain us, the elohim could explain. Spirit in physical bodies, carried along and 'married' to the flesh. Also, held captive and imprisoned to serve a 'life sentence.'

“My Spirit will not remain in adam (mankind) indefinitely, since they are mortal. They will remain for 120 more years.”

[Mr E]

How can you say ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?”

Jesus replied, “The light is with you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, so that the darkness may not overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, so that you may become sons of light.”

I have come as a light into the world, so that everyone who believes in me should not remain in darkness.

He's pointing right at Genesis 1.

[Mr E]

Jesus says (in John 8)-- "I am the light of the world." If you don't grasp what he is saying in John 8 and John 1, what has already been said in Genesis 1 will slip right past you like just another sunrise that you slept through.

The light, the logos, the word, the spirit son-- of the Father, manifest in the fleshly container, and they named him Yeshua-- a rescuer.

And so it was in the beginning. The land had become without order and empty. The English translators do us no favors. Vs 2 of Genesis mentions 'the land' before there was any land to speak of. It's talking about a different realm-- a spiritual domain, before the light comes and before 'creation' as we know it, begins. What was there before? What was there before it became disordered and empty-- was there an earlier time when it was orderly and full? -and then it deteriorated? And then it was ruined, and a devastation came, and this story in Genesis is the story of a new beginning, the kind of which is described in Rev 21-- where 'the old earth' falls into desolation and neglect-- like a forgotten ghost town. A kind of domain where the spirit of the elohim blow across like wind, aimless, hovering, empty of meaning, empty of life-- an abandoned realm, or one that became that way.

Here we lack context. We are not familiar with this 'other' realm. It's unknown to us and as unfamiliar as the space between atomic particles we cannot see-- but it's something. It's like the fabric from which all things are made. We do know with certainty however that it's a spiritual realm, the realm of the elohim and that in that realm something happens that changes everything. Some of the elohim rebel against the Father and they are expelled from the heavenly realm as a result. They are 'cast down' and subjected to an existence in a lower, earthly realm-- a land before the light to come. A disorderly, dark, and empty place-- before the light.

And the light comes as it always has-- as the logos, the word, the spirit son-- to manifest in flesh, as a rescuer.