Jesus is God - Hebrews 1:3

[Wootah]

Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is:

"the radiance of God's glory and the exact imprint of His nature."

My question is not about whether Jesus is an image of God. Humans are also said to be made in God's image (Genesis 1:27).

Instead, I'm interested in the phrase "exact imprint of His nature."

If Jesus is a created being, how can He be the exact imprint of God's nature while possessing a different kind of nature from God?

If God's nature is uncreated and Christ's nature is created, what makes the imprint "exact"?

Conversely, if Christ possesses everything necessary to be the exact imprint of God's nature, does that imply He shares that nature?

How do Trinitarians and non-Trinitarians understand Hebrews 1:3?

[Mr E]

[Replying to Wootah in post #8]

According to the replies so far:

Why make a point at all that Jesus is like the Father? What's the fuss?

Hint: living tabernacle (but just tell me your answers)

It's more than saying that Jesus is like the Father. You might notice that the text itself in Hebrews doesn't mention "Jesus" at all. Rather it is speaking of 'the son.'

The son has the same nature as the Father. What is God's "nature?" The Father has a spiritual, not physical nature. A divine, not human nature. So 'the son' the text is talking about is of this same spiritual nature. It isn't talking about the man Jesus at all, except by virtue of the spirit/son of God that indwells him. This is that "living tabernacle" you allude to. Jesus (the human) became the living tabernacle for the spirit-son of God, whom the Father sent, who descended like a dove upon, indwelling and empowering him.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #9]

While you believe it says that, I know that is not what it says.

While you attempt to construct doctrines based on isolated expressions, I rely on the context. And what does the context say?

The context of Hebrews 1:3 states that the same God who had spoken through the prophets was now speaking through His Son. It also says that when this Son was exalted, he was seated at the right hand of God, because he had inherited a name superior to that of the angels.

If the prophets were not God Himself, then this Son was not God Himself either. In fact, Jesus is also recognized biblically as a prophet—the prophet like Moses who had been foretold.

What else does it say? It says that God seated Jesus at His right hand. Moreover, it does not merely say that God seated him; rather, he was seated at the right hand of the Majesty. How can someone who is said to be seated at the right hand of the Majesty in the heavens be God Himself, the very Majesty?

It also says that he inherited a name. Can God inherit a name and, by virtue of that, become superior to the angels?

We cannot isolate texts in order to reinterpret them to suit our own views. Even less can you interpret a text from a passage while denying what that very passage states within its own context. What kind of analysis is that?

I did not interpret but quote definitions of original Bible words, specifically in Hebrews 1:3, from authorized and highly credentialed Bible lexicographers who define Bible words in their original language what it means at the time it was used, they are not isolated expression as you said.

Interpretation without consulting what the specific Bible word means tends to suit their own views and preconceptions. And context must not be outside the defined Bible word.

If dictionaries are of no use to us, eisegesis comes easy.

By the way, point no. 3 was not addressed; the passage is also in Hebrews 1:3,
3. Except Jesus, can we name any man who can make purification of our sins?
If there isn't, would it mean Jesus possessed something man doesn't have: His being God?

You equate Jesus with the prophets; can the prophets make purification of our sins?

[Wootah]

[Replying to Wootah in post #8]

According to the replies so far:

Why make a point at all that Jesus is like the Father? What's the fuss?

Hint: living tabernacle (but just tell me your answers)

It's more than saying that Jesus is like the Father. You might notice that the text itself in Hebrews doesn't mention "Jesus" at all. Rather it is speaking of 'the son.'

The son has the same nature as the Father. What is God's "nature?" The Father has a spiritual, not physical nature. A divine, not human nature. So 'the son' the text is talking about is of this same spiritual nature. It isn't talking about the man Jesus at all, except by virtue of the spirit/son of God that indwells him. This is that "living tabernacle" you allude to. Jesus (the human) became the living tabernacle for the spirit-son of God, whom the Father sent, who descended like a dove upon, indwelling and empowering him.

I am not sure I want to debate spiritual vs physical yet because I am just trying to keep this simple.

3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

The author could have removed the first half of 3 and just said Jesus paid for our sins.

I think until we can get to that base line we can't sort out our theological differences.

Why does the Bible bother telling us at all?

[Wootah]

I do not read in Hebrews 1:3 that Jesus is God Himself; rather, it is quite the opposite. By stating that Jesus is the *charaktēr tēs hypostaseōs* (χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως) of God, Paul is emphasizing that Jesus is the Son of God—the one through whom God speaks to Christians, just as He had spoken in times past through His prophets.

There are many ways in which translators have rendered this phrase from Paul, and depending on which version you read or cite, your understanding of its meaning may be affected. So, what is the best way to understand it?

The correct way to understand a biblical text is to read it within its own context. What does the context of Hebrews 1:3 say? It states:

Heb. 1:1 God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of [His] glory and the exact representation of His very being, and He sustains all things by the word of His power; and after He had made a purification for our sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in the heights. 4 Thus, He has become superior to the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

Do you believe that the context of Hebrews 1:3 identifies Jesus as God Himself, or is it quite the opposite?

How can anything be an exact representation of God's very being?

Consider yourself. Could anything be an exact representation of your very being? If God made an exact representation of my very being in a clone that I could talk to I think I would be talking to myself, wouldn't I?

Do you think God can create God? I don't. I think any created thing that is meant to be like God would be possible, but never exact. We are God's image bearers but as we both know, it is unwise to assume God is evil just because mankind is so evil.

edit: Why did the writer of hebrews force it to be an exact representation and not a very good copy?

[Wootah]

[Replying to tygger too in post #3]

Therefore, this passage could honestly be saying that Jesus reflects the glory of God and bears the image of (or "reflects") God's character (see Moffatt translation above). Or, Jesus perfectly shows God's qualities. Or even, Jesus reflects God's resolution or God's assurance, etc.

Yes so why bother saying it at all is where I want to go first?

[Wootah]

[Replying to Wootah in post #8]

According to the replies so far:

Why make a point at all that Jesus is like the Father? What's the fuss?

Hint: living tabernacle (but just tell me your answers)

It's more than saying that Jesus is like the Father. You might notice that the text itself in Hebrews doesn't mention "Jesus" at all. Rather it is speaking of 'the son.'

The son has the same nature as the Father. What is God's "nature?" The Father has a spiritual, not physical nature. A divine, not human nature. So 'the son' the text is talking about is of this same spiritual nature. It isn't talking about the man Jesus at all, except by virtue of the spirit/son of God that indwells him. This is that "living tabernacle" you allude to. Jesus (the human) became the living tabernacle for the spirit-son of God, whom the Father sent, who descended like a dove upon, indwelling and empowering him.

Can I add that we also have a spiritual nature, and so do other spirit beings? Is that all the writer wants to say: "Look, God is a fish, there are fish, and this guy is a fish"? So what?

[HimWithin]

Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is:

"the radiance of God's glory and the exact imprint of His nature."

My question is not about whether Jesus is an image of God. Humans are also said to be made in God's image (Genesis 1:27).

Instead, I'm interested in the phrase "exact imprint of His nature."

If Jesus is a created being, how can He be the exact imprint of God's nature while possessing a different kind of nature from God?

If God's nature is uncreated and Christ's nature is created, what makes the imprint "exact"?

Conversely, if Christ possesses everything necessary to be the exact imprint of God's nature, does that imply He shares that nature?

How do Trinitarians and non-Trinitarians understand Hebrews 1:3?

The answer to Hebrews 1:3 lies in the fact that Jesus in the flesh did not live as one person, but as two.

"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells bodily" (Col 2:9)
“That you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (Joh 10:37-38)

It was the divine Father living in His human Son expressing His divine nature through His human Son, so that when we saw the human Son we were seeing His divine Father who was speaking through His human Son.

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him…He who has seen Me has seen the Father…Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. (Joh 14:7-10)

The human Son was the exact imprint of His Father’s divine nature who was living in His human Son.
The human Son was the radiance of His Father’s divine glory who was living through His human Son.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing from Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” (Joh 5:19)

[Capbook]

Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is:

"the radiance of God's glory and the exact imprint of His nature."

My question is not about whether Jesus is an image of God. Humans are also said to be made in God's image (Genesis 1:27).

Instead, I'm interested in the phrase "exact imprint of His nature."

If Jesus is a created being, how can He be the exact imprint of God's nature while possessing a different kind of nature from God?

If God's nature is uncreated and Christ's nature is created, what makes the imprint "exact"?

Conversely, if Christ possesses everything necessary to be the exact imprint of God's nature, does that imply He shares that nature?

How do Trinitarians and non-Trinitarians understand Hebrews 1:3?

The answer to Hebrews 1:3 lies in the fact that Jesus in the flesh did not live as one person, but as two.

"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells bodily" (Col 2:9)
“That you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (Joh 10:37-38)

It was the divine Father living in His human Son expressing His divine nature through His human Son, so that when we saw the human Son we were seeing His divine Father who was speaking through His human Son.

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him…He who has seen Me has seen the Father…Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. (Joh 14:7-10)

The human Son was the exact imprint of His Father’s divine nature who was living in His human Son.
The human Son was the radiance of His Father’s divine glory who was living through His human Son.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing from Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” (Joh 5:19)

Jesus had made purification of our sins; the word "purification" bears Strong#G2512, in Greek, "defined by Bible Lexicon as 'cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ,' etc.

The question would be: except Jesus, can we name any human who can make purification of our sins? Cleansing us from the guilt of our sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ?

If we can't name one, would it mean Jesus possessed something man doesn't have?
His being God, the exact (100%) representation of His Father's essence.

Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Heb 1:3  N1 And He is the radiance G541  of His glory G1391  and the exact G5481 R1 representation G5481  of His nature G5287 , and  N2 R2 upholds G5342  all G3956  things G3956  by the word G4487  of His power G1411 . When He had made G4160 R3 purification G2512  of sins G266 , He  R4 sat G2523  down G2523  at the right G1188  hand G1188  of the  R5 Majesty G3172  on high G5308 ,

G2512 (Thayer)
καθαρισμός katharismos
Thayer Definition:
1) a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
1a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
1b) of Levitical purification of women after childbirth
1c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ