Do you really care that I am going to hell?

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:55 am

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Think about it. If you saw your mother being beaten by someone on the street, would you stop to help save her? Would you put your own life at risk to keep her from drowning? Is there anything you would not do to help her? OK, what about eternal torture in hell? Doesn't this concern you? What about all the other people in your life who are going to hell? Doesn't this leave you feeling devastated? If I believed there was a hell and that so many people would be going - especially any of my friends or family - I would be in constant agony myself and would devote my life to stopping it. Or, I would be numb.

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

This OP came about after reading commentary by some of our more conservative Christian friends in here. Some seem to have no real problem with all us atheists burning in hell forever. Granted, there are probably some personal anger issues involved but still, I have always been uneasy with how casual many Christians are when it comes to discussing eternal damnation. Some get more upset over running over a kitty than the eternal torture of their best friend.

Nonetheless, I give most the benefit of the doubt: I don't think they are really that cold. I just don't think they really believe as much in the hell concept as they report.

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:10 am

McCulloch wrote: Apart from the Bible, what is it that Christians know about God??

A real Christian is a one who knows God by God himself in the way how God really does exists. Apart from this is not real Christianity nor real Christian, too.

Therefore, apart from the bible, the reality of the existence of God and God himself is very possible to be met by anyone because he has freed himself from the pangs and claws of the bible which incarcerated his mind from the reality of the existence of God.

McCulloch wrote:How reliable is direct revelation from God?

If it is a direct revelation from God, it is 100% reliabel since it is direct from God. However, it also depends on how reliable God is on your perception.

twobitsmedia · Post by **twobitsmedia** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:43 am

adlemi wrote:
If it is a direct revelation from God, it is 100% reliabel since it is direct from God. However, it also depends on how reliable God is on your perception.

Wouldn't this make you a diety of some sort? Even Jesus used and quoted scripture.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:44 am

McCulloch wrote:

Apart from the Bible, what is it that Christians know about God??

Adlemi wrote:

A real Christian is a one who knows God by God himself in the way how God really does exists. Apart from this is not real Christianity nor real Christian, too.
Therefore, apart from the bible, the reality of the existence of God and God himself is very possible to be met by anyone because he has freed himself from the pangs and claws of the bible which incarcerated his mind from the reality of the existence of God.

Please forgive me Adlemi but I find your statements to be very confusing. (I am as a child and need things spelled out very carefully.) Nonetheless, from what I can get out of it, I don't think you are a Christian - at least not by most Christian's standards. It sounds like your personal conversations with God are the basis of your faith and trump what is stated in the Bible. Thus, in the eyes of most Christians you are probably not a member of their group.
However, your actual label is less important to me at this point. I am very fascinated by the logic you use to arrive at your conclusions as well as your emotional landscape.

McCulloch wrote:
How reliable is direct revelation from God?

If it is a direct revelation from God, it is 100% reliabel since it is direct from God. However, it also depends on how reliable God is on your perception.

I Emailed this conversation to my brother. He is absolutely dialed in to God. He has regular conversations with Him, dines with Him and is very "perceptive" as well as receptive to God. My brother Emailed back to me stating that you have it all wrong. How do I choose between you and my brother? Who is right and does one know for sure? (please don't cop-out and say I can't know without knowing God myself)

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:57 am

I could be wrong, but I am beginning to get an odd feeling about this thread.

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:47 am

twobitsmedia wrote:
adlemi wrote:
If it is a direct revelation from God, it is 100% reliabel since it is direct from God. However, it also depends on how reliable God is on your perception.
Wouldn't this make you a diety of some sort? Even Jesus used and quoted scripture.

The question is how reliable is direct revelation from God? And I answered "if it is", so how would this make me a diety of some sort? I just gave an honest answer to the question whose premise is "direct revelation from God", is there anyone who is much reliable than God? Not all that Jesus taught His disciples then were just mere quote from the scriptures that's why Jesus was crucified, people then were not able to follow Him through the scriptures.

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:37 am

Cmass wrote: Please forgive me Adlemi but I find your statements to be very confusing. (I am as a child and need things spelled out very carefully.) Nonetheless, from what I can get out of it, I don't think you are a Christian - at least not by most Christian's standards.

You're free to think whatever I would be based on your mere perception and so with those so called Christians you mentioned. People today have different perception of what Christian is all about but, God, too, has His own set of standard of what Christian is all about, and that is the most important one to me, the one that is of God which the bible cannot esplain to us today so that we can understand what Christian really is in its totality.

Cmass wrote:It sounds like your personal conversations with God are the basis of your faith and trump what is stated in the Bible.

But see what the Lord is teaching today, and He said:

"Come ye all and I will teach you. Only your Lord can teach you what is the meaning of sin much more so that in the bible many are erratic and are not included that’s why if in it there is written do not kill, the meaning of do not is not proper to do but if it will not be your Lord who will teach you, then how will you know that even these are wrong or right? UNLESS YOU THROW AWAY THE OLD, THOSE THAT YOU LEARN BY YOURSELF, THERE AND THEN THAT THE WISDOM COMING FROM THE LORD WILL COME TO YOU BUT IF YOU WILL NOT THROW AWAY THE OLD, YOU WILL REMAIN STUPID IN KNOWING THE MEANING OF SIN BECAUSE NOBODY CAN EVER TEACH YOU THE MEANING OF THOSE BUT YOUR LORD GOD. ANY GOOD DEED WILL SAVE YOU NOT UNLESS YOU TRUST AND ENTRUST YOUR LIFE TO YOUR ALMIGHTY LORD GOD.”

I'm just following God and not the dictatel of men and the bible, what is the big deal in this part? I am not the one who trump on with what is written in the bible but we learned them directly from the Lord. Our fear is in the Lord and not in the bible or with our fellow men.

Cmass wrote:Thus, in the eyes of most Christians you are probably not a member of their group.

So be it but we will still continue to listen and obey God as He does command us to go and scatter His words. They are not God anyway, are they?

Cmass wrote:However, your actual label is less important to me at this point. I am very fascinated by the logic you use to arrive at your conclusions as well as your emotional landscape.

I'm just telling you things we learn from God but do not tell you to focus all your attention to them but to the real and alive God only, no less no more. I know nothing of any emotional landscape you mentioned above.

McCulloch wrote:
How reliable is direct revelation from God?

If it is a direct revelation from God, it is 100% reliabel since it is direct from God. However, it also depends on how reliable God is on your perception.

Cmass wrote:I Emailed this conversation to my brother. He is absolutely dialed in to God. He has regular conversations with Him, dines with Him and is very "perceptive" as well as receptive to God. My brother Emailed back to me stating that you have it all wrong. How do I choose between you and my brother?

Silly question but it is very easy my friend to know if it is really God who is behind with anyone's claim, ask Him first how did he meet God and how did God introduce Himself to him (your brother). Ask from him anything given to him by God, ask him in what manner God is talking to him? If he cannot produce anything but just blahh, blahhh, blahhh, it is not a good sign. If he is able to produce something, see if what he is able to produce tells nothing but all about God, that same tells us people to directlycome to God (not to the bible and this is the most important one) and put our whole being under the custody of God, that same directs us all people to no one but to God alone, these and the likes are not that easy to produce nor to invent unless God really gave you these things.

But you are wrong with your question my friend, you are to choose no one, not even your brother or myself for all you have to do and choose is God himself, we are both nothing when it comes to your salvation and eternal life. Why do you have to believe at once what your brother is telling you about me? If your brother has an accerss to God, you, too, can have should you really want to in your life, God will not deny you. Ask from God if you wnat the truth and believe not at once even if your brother tells you things of God, that way no one can misled you to your way leading to the kingdom of God.

Cmass wrote:Who is right and does one know for sure? (please don't cop-out and say I can't know without knowing God myself)

There is only one right and absolute my friend, go and come to God, He is the only One who is always right, go to Him. Your brother and I are both nothing but just mere servants of God. Your brother doesn't know me at all and am I to him but the real and alive God, He knows all of us people, so come to Him for He is right always.

Just in case I get banned in this forum, you can reach out to me via this email, adlemsot@yahoo.com

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:43 am

Cmass wrote:I could be wrong, but I am beginning to get an odd feeling about this thread.

Seek God's refuge and your feeling will turn into comfort. Seems you're really shocked from something scary. What is that cross in your forehead for? Are you seeing something shocking?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:44 am

McCulloch wrote:Apart from the Bible, what is it that Christians know about God??

adlemi wrote:A real Christian is a one who knows God by God himself in the way how God really does exists. Apart from this is not real Christianity nor real Christian, too.
Therefore, apart from the bible, the reality of the existence of God and God himself is very possible to be met by anyone because he has freed himself from the pangs and claws of the bible which incarcerated his mind from the reality of the existence of God.

[center]I come to the garden alone
While the dew is still on the roses
And the voice I hear falling on my ear
The Son of God discloses.

And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.

He speaks, and the sound of His voice,
Is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
And the melody that He gave to me
Within my heart is ringing.

And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.

I'd stay in the garden with Him
Though the night around me be falling,
But He bids me go; through the voice of woe
His voice to me is calling.

And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.[/center]

McCulloch wrote:How reliable is direct revelation from God?

adlemi wrote:If it is a direct revelation from God, it is 100% reliable since it is direct from God. However, it also depends on how reliable God is on your perception.

I worded the question badly. How reliable is your perception that a particular communication is from God? So many people have had so many different revelations from God. How do you know that your particular revelations are true?

twobitsmedia · Post by **twobitsmedia** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:07 am

adlemi wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
adlemi wrote:
If it is a direct revelation from God, it is 100% reliabel since it is direct from God. However, it also depends on how reliable God is on your perception.
Wouldn't this make you a diety of some sort? Even Jesus used and quoted scripture.
The question is how reliable is direct revelation from God? And I answered "if it is", so how would this make me a diety of some sort? I just gave an honest answer to the question whose premise is "direct revelation from God", is there anyone who is much reliable than God? Not all that Jesus taught His disciples then were just mere quote from the scriptures that's why Jesus was crucified, people then were not able to follow Him through the scriptures.

I guess that would be the issue: "if it is." If you are not sure, then it has no reliability.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:09 pm

Adlemi,

I think perhaps some of what we have discussed earlier assumes you and your mother would die simultaneously. If your mother died well before you and you knew she was in Hell, how would that affect your current state of mind here on earth?

Also, I am struggling to understand you and what you say on many levels. Please help me.
What church or house of worship are you a member of?
Does your group have a name like 7th Day Adventist or Lutheran or Christian Scientist or Catholic etc...??
Also, at what point in your life did you begin to hear God directly? Was there some event that occured which sparked formation of your religious practices?
Do you live on your own or with a group? If in a group, are you related by blood, by marriage or by religious affiliation?
Do you have children? If so, do they live with you?
Did you go to University or do you have any formal, accredited education beyond High School? If so, what was the subject?
I ask these questions because I am trying to understand how you arrived at your present state of mind.

Thanks!
Chris

Also, you seem worried about being kicked off the forum. I have read nothing by you that would indicate hostility toward others so, unless you have been reprimanded in some other thread, I don't see why you would be asked to leave.