Atheism - How can one lack belief?

[theleftone]

I am looking for someone to explain to me (a) the concept of "lacking a belief in the existence of any deities," and (b) how one can truly maintain a position once coming into contact with the concept of a deity. Thus, my questions would be as follows.

1. What does it mean to "lack belief in the existence of any deities?"
2. Is it possible for one to have such a "lack of belief?"
3. Is it possible for one to maintain such a position after being introduced to the concept of a deity?
4. If so, to number 3, how?

[bernee51]

...but in your eyes the world is just a blob of mass nothingness, with no purpose or initial existing purpose to fufill, just a random meaningless piece of accident....

On what basis do you assume an atheist would necessarily have that view of existence? I, as an atheist certainly don't.

Unfortuantly you are going to someday come to grips with your atheistic view that the universe was an accident and all those people you made happy, all that happiness and success you brought to better society, WAS ALL A WASTE OF TIME, BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE ACCIDENTS WITHOUT PURPOSE AS WELL,...[

You are making a big deal of this 'purposelessness' chain of thought? What if you are wrong?

...
and all that love and emphathy you showed to make an old woman feel good WAS ALL A WASTE OF TIME<<BECAUSE SHES JUST GONA ROT IN HER GRAVE AND HER EMOTIONS ARE NOTHING BUT CHEMICALS MOVING AROUND IN HER BRAIN,

Why would offering love an empathy to anyone be a waste of time...regardless of what happens to them?

...
and all the good nutritious nutrients her corpse will emit to the environment ARE POINTLESS BECAUSE THE UNIVERSE IS WITHOUT CAUSE.

This is a non-sequitor. if the universe is without cause why is recycling nutrients 'pointless'?

...
You may lay back in your chair and think "well yes I believe I have a purpose, my purpose is to make people happy and joyful here on their time on earth, but one day you must come and realise that what you believe (or don't believe) is a grim dark bleak hopeless nothiness, because thats what you believe, that some atom that made itself blew up and made your lovely little home in the country with your little family and little career, its all just a random FLATULATE of the universe, so why the hell do you think you have a purpose,,,,,

You really DO go on about this 'pointlessness' business. Does the idea cause you distress? Are you fearful of the possibility?

...
...be philosophical for a moment; and take a realthink about what you truly are believing. So just go outside and look and the birds and the trees and the happy people and the bustling streets and think "YES YES I WAS CREATED FOR A PURPOSE"...

For what purpose were the birds and trees 'created'? For what purpose were you created?

...
...and you are not just a fart of some gas in the universe that will someday blow up and there wont be a sad f**k to see what you've done or achieved.

And thsi is a problem because?

...
So buck up your beliefs and look at the world in a less 'fairytale with no cause' type of way.

Why?

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Excuse me for my language ...

Only if you tell me why you 1) used it and 2 ) felt you need to apologise.

..., and by the way Creator bless you,

In that I am very fortunate, the 'creaor' has blessed me with his absence.

...
and I see your point about the blanket of belief, maybe that blanket is what makes me different from the rest of you people who don't give a damn about Kinsmen.

So in addition to apologizing for 'bad language' - perhaps you could review your ad hominems.

On what basis do you equate atheism with not giving a "damn about Kinsmen."?

...
I'm not asking you to run inside a church and repent, just look around you, look at what is here without reading a science textbook to find a possible alternative which will eventually lead to you being convinced you are a gibbon fart of star gasses.

Oh how arrogant the believer can be. Always the assumption that the atheist just has to 'look' to see the truth.

And what if that has already been done and the doing of this has lead to non-belief?

[realthinker]

Noachian, the first word that came to my mind when I read your post was "disturbed".

Beyond that, though, the next word is naive, followed by narrow-minded.

Suppose, for a bit, that the Universe was indeed created. I don't entirely discount it, but from my point of view it's not necessary. Should there be a creator, what more direct evidence of his plan might we have than the simple accumulated knowledge of our existence? If the creator created me and he created the world, how could I serve him better than to understand as much of the whole of his creation as I could and to embrace as much of it as I can? The universe has its rules -- gravity, light, heat, matter, physics and mathematics. It also has the entirety of human behavior and social order. It is all fascinating, whether it was the design of a masterful creator or if it is somehow simply there with no explanation.

Should there be a creator, what better show of respect can I make, in the face of all the confusion regarding his intent, than to try to understand everything I can about the universe, and to know it intimately? What more can I do to sort through the noise of Christians battling Muslims and Jews and whomever else is battling for the truth than to embrace the very direct, very real understanding of the design that is all around us?

With regard to purpose, what matter the intent when I have little choice but to live within the natural rules that govern the human condition? I carry out my purpose, that of being a husband and a father and a teacher and a helper, with kindness, good will, and integrity. I embrace the world with nothing more than an honest desire to know it and to contribute its grandeur. Would the creator, if there is one, dismiss my honest devotion to knowing the truth because I did not express it in the proper number of genuflections and passings of prayer beads? If that should be, I'm certainly no worse off than a very, very few, because there is certainly no clear understanding of what it may really take to please the creator, should there be one.

Do not for a minute believe that because I do not embrace your proscribed purpose that I wander aimlessly. Your simple minded notion of purpose, a mission spoken or revealed without subtlety, makes me think you've not wandered far in your efforts to understand the notion of a creator.

Have you never considered that you may be just as likely an ignorant victim as much as those you so readily slander? Is your ego such that you cannot consider that you're as equally illusioned as anyone else around you? If you've so thoroughly examined all the possibilities that you can categorically say that you know that you understand the purpose so well as you suggest, you've risen above all of the rest of mankind, because you'll have settled the debate that has raged for centuries. And I wish you'd fill us in.

But if you can't say that, I'd suggest you try to broaden your examination of things, especially before you try to suggest you understand my position. You've been insulting, chauvinistic, bigoted, prejudice.

And I hate to point out such things, but learn to spell and to write in complete sentences. It was honestly hard to know your point without a few reads because of the poor skills.

[Noachian]

Realthinker, I see you are a wise man, however you claim I am bigoted, chauvenistic and prejustice when you have never even met me, I can see you a quite the thinker and are a good man in your intent, but however I simply become angry at the fact of STEROTYPING, perhaps I have slightly sterotyped the atheist in my day but I simply can not stand it when I am accused of killing muslims or preaching about hell fire on the streets, I live in TWENTY FIRST CENTURY GREAT BRITAIN hell fire preachers are scarse and I dont even attend church because people like you make me embarressed, and those people you speak of who battle out whos believing the right thing are called religious fanatics, I dfeel for them as much as the next person, blowing things up in the name of God asan excuse to just simply blow things up. Do you think the Crusades were a religious war, OH No the 'christians' robbed houses and temples and mosques and killed people for money and raped women, and said it was all in the name of Christ, well when Christ was whatching I dont think he would be to proud it was in his name.

Oh and I apologised about my spelling and over use of commers, but look it up its called DYSLEXIA so dont make me feel worse than I already do having to spend an exrta 30 mintues on my exams in my school years.

I just want everyone to get along, so just please lets just all get along. I cant stand this world today we all just fight all the time, we are human beings, lets compromise rationaly. SO lets just agree to dissagree shall we?

[realthinker]

One of the things we all have to watch in this form of discourse is the conclusions we make of one another based on a bit of text. Text is terse, cold, and flat, and probably few of us here are actually like that.

In your post you attacked me on the basis of what you assumed I believed. You went on to suggest that you have a claim to higher understanding, and that some day I'd recognize that understanding and change my beliefs. Those two together, to me, suggest chauvinism and bigotry. I'm happy to give you another chance and the chance to debate.

Please look up more of my posts. I've put forth a number of ideas that I think will let you understand more of what I believe and I'd be happy to discuss, through private message if you like.

[Scrotum]

Realthinker, I see you are a wise man, however you claim I am bigoted, chauvenistic and prejustice when you have never even met me, I can see you a quite the thinker and are a good man in your intent, but however I simply become angry at the fact of STEROTYPING, perhaps I have slightly sterotyped the atheist in my day but I simply can not stand it when I am accused of killing muslims or preaching about hell fire on the streets, I live in TWENTY FIRST CENTURY GREAT BRITAIN hell fire preachers are scarse and I dont even attend church because people like you make me embarressed, and those people you speak of who battle out whos believing the right thing are called religious fanatics, I dfeel for them as much as the next person, blowing things up in the name of God asan excuse to just simply blow things up. Do you think the Crusades were a religious war, OH No the 'christians' robbed houses and temples and mosques and killed people for money and raped women, and said it was all in the name of Christ, well when Christ was whatching I dont think he would be to proud it was in his name.

Oh and I apologised about my spelling and over use of commers, but look it up its called DYSLEXIA so dont make me feel worse than I already do having to spend an exrta 30 mintues on my exams in my school years.

I just want everyone to get along, so just please lets just all get along. I cant stand this world today we all just fight all the time, we are human beings, lets compromise rationaly. SO lets just agree to dissagree shall we?

Noachian, He would not have to have met you to make such an assumptions, he, as I, merely read what you wrote, and I get the same feeling.

Your spelling and grammar is of no problem to us, as long as we understand what you are saying, and food for thought, generally dyslectic people are highly intelligent (with exceptions), and you can easily overcome it by your own enthusiasm and eager.


To your points; I have reason in my life, so your entire post is invalidated by that. You make your own purpose, you seem to have equated meaning and purpose with the Church, insted of living a good life, doing what is good for you and your brethren (human society).


As you are British, which is a far better educated country then United States (the majority in this forum are Americans), it is indeed interesting to see a similar Christian zealot as you see there. The reason you see such few churches, preachers etcetera in the same way as in the U.S, is because of good eduation and understanding of the world; We dont need religion to give us fairytales anymore, because now we know why the "sun goes up", or the "lightning strikes".

Also, excusing Religious Wars such as the Crusades, calling them "not real Christians", puts you in a realm of "my own definition", and makes any argument you make pointless, as anything you dont like would be discarded by you as "False Christianity(tm)". Similar to another members of this forum, which is doing this all the time, I suggest you use your intellect instead, and contemplate what it is you ae actually saying.


I am a monkey, I am not ashamed of it, Why are you?

[Cathar1950]

To your points; I have reason in my life, so your entire post is invalidated by that. You make your own purpose, you seem to have equated meaning and purpose with the Church, insted of living a good life, doing what is good for you and your brethren (human society).

Those are the signs of a mature healthy human being.
Group fantasy can be just as unhealthy as unattached individual fantasy.
I have to go finish my Demise game and raise the levels of my group.

[Scrotum]

To your points; I have reason in my life, so your entire post is invalidated by that. You make your own purpose, you seem to have equated meaning and purpose with the Church, insted of living a good life, doing what is good for you and your brethren (human society).

Those are the signs of a mature healthy human being.
Group fantasy can be just as unhealthy as unattached individual fantasy.
I have to go finish my Demise game and raise the levels of my group.

Oh My, a Roleplayer. That is not healthy.