Purpose versus Reason for Belief

[realthinker]

In another discussion there was a thread regarding why people believe in God. It became apparent to me that there are two aspects to that question. Both are not easy to reconcile.

First is the reason we as individuals believe or do not believe in God. This has to do with the collection of facts that we have each accepted that support our conclusion. That is fundamental reasoning.

Secondly, and less frequently discussed, is the purpose that the concept of God plays in our lives and has played in the development of our societies. What does belief do for us? How has the shared idea of God changed how our communities behave and change?

The questions I have for debate are these:

1. When asked why you believe or disbelieve, do you consider both aspects of the question?

2. If you have, has the purpose you arrived at affected your reasons? If so, how?


Any of you who keep up with my posting should know I have distinct ideas on both of these, and I'll keep those quiet for now. I'd like to hear what the rest of you think on this.

I'll be traveling today and won't be around for elaboration, should it be necessary, but I promise to check back later in the afternoon.

[Furrowed Brow]

1. When asked why you believe or disbelieve, do you consider both aspects of the question?

Not as you characterise it no. In the formation of my own beliefs and attidudes I really don’t think much about the role religion plays in culture. However, I do respond to the question of a god from the perspective of reason + my own personal gut/aesthetic response. I’d say religious attitude is an existential orientation. A direction to follow that feels best. In this respect athiesm is like theism. If the direction contradicts your ability to reason then you change directions. If it doesn’t then keep going.

The concept of a god serves no purpose in my life than other as good debate fodder, and a force to be resisted in the evolutionary debate. From what I’ve seen the notion of God gives comfort to some, and Cathar has said on another thread some people wear it well, for others it completely throws a spanner in the works messing up their ability to think straight.

I would say that religion is an efficient mechanism for getting people involved in group activity. You don’t hear about atheists getting together on their day off to sing, share common stories, and generally engage in copy cat behaviours.

[bernee51]

In another discussion there was a thread regarding why people believe in God. It became apparent to me that there are two aspects to that question. Both are not easy to reconcile.

First is the reason we as individuals believe or do not believe in God. This has to do with the collection of facts that we have each accepted that support our conclusion. That is fundamental reasoning.

Secondly, and less frequently discussed, is the purpose that the concept of God plays in our lives and has played in the development of our societies. What does belief do for us? How has the shared idea of God changed how our communities behave and change?

The questions I have for debate are these:

1. When asked why you believe or disbelieve, do you consider both aspects of the question?

2. If you have, has the purpose you arrived at affected your reasons? If so, how?


Any of you who keep up with my posting should know I have distinct ideas on both of these, and I'll keep those quiet for now. I'd like to hear what the rest of you think on this.

I'll be traveling today and won't be around for elaboration, should it be necessary, but I promise to check back later in the afternoon.

There are two aspects here. First that fact we exist and second how we make sense of that existence. Where I see them as separate issues religious belief, which, more often than not, incorporates a god belief conflates these two.

The conclusions I have come to regarding the fact of my existence have been influenced by and in turn influence attitudes I hold regarding how I make sense of my existence. Neither is all that complex. I, like all biological beings, will, when the biological support system fails, cease to exist as anything other than the raw materials that make me up. An aspect of that biological process is what we call consciousness. It is on this consciousness that the construct which I perceive as 'my life' is projected.

[ST_JB]

Whenever I attempt to engage in any discussion, view any "concept" or analyze anything presented to me, I always make sure that in doing so, I would be able to identify two important aspects in forming a concept, belief or idea and that is identifying the object and the subject in reference to particular act.

In this case, I would like to point out that in answering about the purpose for belief and the reason for belief, we must identify first of all the subject and the object of such act.

In the case of belief, the object will always be the Supreme Being - GOD.

The purpose, I would say addresses what is the very "nature" of existence of man.

The reason, i would say addresses what is the "cause" of the existence. The object for both is God and the subject is man. Thus, reason always look for object to assent to. Without such object, it is impossible to reason as in to reason from the the negative - that is to reason to prove God's non-existence.

[BeHereNow]

The discussion of this thread seems to be two pronged: What about me, and what about us.

If I am asked about my belief about God I usually say something like “Yes, I am a Deist.”
Often there is no reply, other than the polite “Oh”.
If asked to explain, I say that is the religion of many of our fore fathers such as Thomas Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, men like that. That usually ends the conversation.
I have intuited a prime creator, which can most easily be referred to as “God”.

I do not consider the reason individuals believe in God. I may have in the past. I do recall asking this question of others, and I remember the reactions being something to the effect of “Everybody believes in God.”

As a species I believe there are many reasons the group believes in God. This is because for individuals there are many reasons.

From my experience, a very large group of “god believers” are also “Christian believers”. And a very large group of these, have very little understanding of the scriptures, the sacraments of the church, the differences in sects, seldom or never attend church, seldom or never read the bible, seldom or never pray, seldom or never consider why they are Christian rather than religion X. It is sort of an “us-them” mentality, and most want to be part of “us”. So they believe in God and call themselves Christian. Evangelicals eagerly number them among the faithful, who want all of the things Evangelicals want.

I believe the majority of God believers in the United States do so to be part of the group, simple as that.

I can see that secondarily these other issues mentioned come into play: promise of immortality, rewards in the afterlife, explain the nature of being. Most God believers and Christians believe these things come to them because they deserve it. Those who do vile or evil things probably rationalize/believe the god stuff is trash, no need to worry. And of course there are those who say “I am going to do the right thing because I want to do the right thing.”

We on this board are obvious exceptions, but most God believers do so by default.

My strongest argument for this is the clear fact most individuals inherit the beliefs of their father. What the father and mother say they believe, odds are the children will too, especially if the topic is as broad as “a belief in God”. They may drift to other sects.

Of course this could also point to the proposed “god gene”. We have only one head by default, because it is in our genes. We have a belief in God by default, it is in our genes. Belief in god is not a choice, it is inherent. God put it there, except for the mutants, of course, with no explanation of why he made such mutants.

If a large group (but still a minority) of citizens could be convinced the IRS could provide life after death, eternal bliss, wonderful things extraordinaire, I am confident they could lead the others to be faithful to the IRS with a fervor Joel Osteen would admire, and possibly covet.

For me God plays a role similar to the existence of any of the many wonders of the cosmos. Black holes, time warps, light speed, formation of galaxies, time-space continuum. Very interesting stuff, but if my car won’t start, or I am dying of cancer, not very relevant.