If the resurrection did not occur, who / what was Jesus?

Catharsis · Post by **Catharsis** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:20 pm

>>>What's more important here, though, it's what's going on in this thread. I've offered a very rational explanation of what Christianity really is<<<

What Christianity is
http://www.vic.com/~tscon/pelagia/htm/b ... apy.01.htm
http://www.vic.com/~tscon/pelagia/htm/b ... apy.00.htm

This book contains the important message that the church can heal an ailing personality. The term "Orthodox Psychotherapy" does not refer to specific cases of people suffering from psychological problems of neurosis. Rather it refers to all people. According to Orthodox Tradition, after Adam;s fall man became ill; his "nous" was darkened and lost communion with God. Death entered into the person's being and caused many anthropological, social, even ecological problems. In the tragedy of his fall man maintained the image of God within him but lost completely the the likeness of Him, since his communion with God was disrupted. However the incarnation of Christ and the work of the church aim at enabling the person to attain to the likeness of God, that is to reestablish communion with God. This passage way from a fallen state to divinization is called the healing of the person, because it is connected with his return from a state of being contrary to nature, to that of a state according to nature and above nature. By adhering to Orthodox therapeuthic treatment as conceived by the Holy Fathers of Church man can cope succesfully with his thoughts (logismoi) and thus solve his problems completely and comprehensively.

The Duke of Vandals · Post by **The Duke of Vandals** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:23 am

So, at this point you've conceded the debate. Disagree? Then in your next post address the issues I raised with Athenagoras, with Philo, and with the issues of Judaism in the first century. I'm not interested in your worthless tangents.

BeHereNow · Post by **BeHereNow** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:49 am

goat says: In the Jewish culture of the time, the term 'son of god' was someone who was particularly righteous and particularly blessed by god by their actions.

Here are additional OT quotes to support this truth, and to indicate that there were many sons of god. Jesus considered himself one among many. Jesus derived his terms from the OT, not from second century scholars.

Gen. 6 [2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen. 6 [4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Job 1 [6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2 [1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38 [7] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Hosea 1 [10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Easyrider · Post by **Easyrider** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:07 am

BeHereNow wrote:
goat says: In the Jewish culture of the time, the term 'son of god' was someone who was particularly righteous and particularly blessed by god by their actions.
Here are additional OT quotes to support this truth, and to indicate that there were many sons of god. Jesus considered himself one among many. Jesus derived his terms from the OT, not from second century scholars.

Gen. 6 [2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen. 6 [4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Job 1 [6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2 [1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38 [7] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Hosea 1 [10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

For a more comprehensive and accurate view of Jesus as God's only begotten Son, please review:

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resou ... gottenson/

BeHereNow · Post by **BeHereNow** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:28 am

The Duke of Vandals · Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:31 am

Easyrider wrote:
BeHereNow wrote:
goat says: In the Jewish culture of the time, the term 'son of god' was someone who was particularly righteous and particularly blessed by god by their actions.
Here are additional OT quotes to support this truth, and to indicate that there were many sons of god. Jesus considered himself one among many. Jesus derived his terms from the OT, not from second century scholars.

Gen. 6 [2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen. 6 [4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Job 1 [6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2 [1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38 [7] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Hosea 1 [10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
For a more comprehensive and accurate view of Jesus as God's only begotten Son, please review:

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resou ... gottenson/

Son, we're having a grown up discussion about the non-existence of Jesus. I know you didn't have anything to refute my post and that you've been waiting to add something of value to this thread. To get your licks in. What you've offered, though... well, let's just say that you're still not ready to sit at the adult table. Why don't you run along and play in the general debate forum and let the grown-ups have their conversation, yes?

Easyrider · Post by **Easyrider** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:36 am

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:40 pm

BeHereNow wrote:
goat says: In the Jewish culture of the time, the term 'son of god' was someone who was particularly righteous and particularly blessed by god by their actions.
Here are additional OT quotes to support this truth, and to indicate that there were many sons of god. Jesus considered himself one among many. Jesus derived his terms from the OT, not from second century scholars.

Gen. 6 [2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen. 6 [4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Job 1 [6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2 [1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38 [7] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Hosea 1 [10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Ah yes.. you point out yet another use of the term 'sons of god', and that is the angels.

Catharsis · Post by **Catharsis** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:07 am

To Duke,

>>>So, at this point you've conceded the debate. Disagree? Then in your next post address the issues I raised with Athenagoras, with Philo, and with the issues of Judaism in the first century. I'm not interested in your worthless tangents.<<<

What specific questions/issues/points do you want me to address?