So my finger is 2 inches from pressing the button..

[ollagram88]

..that will release nuclear bombs, destroying all of humanity.

What would be the atheist rationale to convince me not to push the button?

[daedalus 2.0]

1. Assuming the button-pusher is atheist: because you wouldn't get to live out your life - the one life you have and you would steal the only infinitely precious thing: an individuals life.

2. Assuming the button-pusher is religious: not much. After all, if you are a religious person, you would be obliged to push the button. Sure, you would rot in Hell, but you would sacrifice yourself for everyone else on Earth - especially the children, since they would go to Heaven automatically. This is the problem with the major religions - as we have seen. Muslims have no problem killing themselves for an afterlife, and Xians aren't much better.

Consider Jesus, he sacrificed himself to save everyone - the suicide button-pusher would be no different. He would end suffering on Earth and go to Hell knowing he saved the world.



The atheist has no such luxury. The atheist knows that he wouldn't push the button because it would end the only thing he considers worthy of worship: life and consciousness. An atheist wouldn't do it because its wrong - a theist wouldn't do it because they are selfish and want to save their soul, while babies starve by the millions around the world, or are born into lives in which they will never be "Saved" by their religion.


To paraphrase, it takes good people to do good, and bad people to do bad, but it takes religion to make good people do bad things.

[ollagram88]

2. Assuming the button-pusher is religious: not much. After all, if you are a religious person, you would be obliged to push the button. Sure, you would rot in Hell, but you would sacrifice yourself for everyone else on Earth - especially the children, since they would go to Heaven automatically.

this is kind of OT, but i'll address it anyway, only on the issue of christianity because i was once a christian and don't want to mistakenly speak for what i might not understand.

you're assuming you know how the christian God would judge that sort of action. where's your evidence that the christian God would come to that conclusion? you seem to be jumping the gun a bit too quickly in an effort to put atheism over religion.

how does one go to heaven or hell? are heaven and hell metaphorical or literal? were they inserted or were they original Christian teachings?

why would i be "obliged" to do something that would make me to go hell? why would i go to hell for sending people to heaven? why should MY actions affect God's judgement of OTHER people?

there seems to be a lot of flaws in your reasoning here based on these questions alone.

but on to the meat:

1. Assuming the button-pusher is atheist: because you wouldn't get to live out your life - the one life you have and you would steal the only infinitely precious thing: an individuals life.

what make's an individual's life "infinitely precious?"
what's the incentive for an individual to live out his or her life?

[McCulloch]

So my finger is 2 inches from pressing the button...that will release nuclear bombs, destroying all of humanity.

What would be the atheist rationale to convince me not to push the button?

Can I ask what is your motivation to end all human life, including your own?

[Goat]

..that will release nuclear bombs, destroying all of humanity.

What would be the atheist rationale to convince me not to push the button?

Obviously, you have to be totally insane to even be contemplating it. Therefore, religious or non-religious, there is no reasoning with such a mind, and I hope that my shot to your head will paralyze your fingers so that you are unable to complete the action.

[ollagram88]

hmm..i don't think i should have a motivation to push the button? if i must.. there could be a number of reasons.

-i feel like it
-i want all humans to die
-i think it would be fun to watch things explode
-watching things explode to me seems cooler to the point where it outweighs my regard for human life

the question here is not so much as why one would want to push the button as the question why one should care about the lives of all the other humans that will die. it's like a kid poking a caterpillar with a stick just for the hell of it (i did it all the time in my cousin's backyard!).

my "sanity" is irrelevant. let's say i'm caterpillar-poking little kid with no firm grasp of the regard for human life, but am able to be taught it. the question here is (or should ultimately boil down to) why i should regard human life. how would you teach me?

[McCulloch]

hmm..i don't think i should have a motivation to push the button?

You don't just do something like that without a motivation. You may choose to disclose that motivation or not, but it must exist.

if i must.. there could be a number of reasons.

-i feel like it
-i want all humans to die
-i think it would be fun to watch things explode
-watching things explode to me seems cooler to the point where it outweighs my regard for human life

I was wondering if any supernatural beings were telling you that it was required.

the question here is not so much as why one would want to push the button as the question why one should care about the lives of all the other humans that will die. it's like a kid poking a caterpillar with a stick just for the hell of it (i did it all the time in my cousin's backyard!).

In that case why is the question directed only to atheists? Theists would have a difficulty convincing you as well.

my "sanity" is irrelevant. let's say i'm caterpillar-poking little kid with no firm grasp of the regard for human life, but am able to be taught it. the question here is (or should ultimately boil down to) why i should regard human life. how would you teach me?

If you have no regard for human life, including your own and are willing to end it all unilaterally for everyone, then you should be removed as quickly as possible from the population.

If as you say you are able to be taught regard for human life, then it must start with a recognition of the value of your own and that everyone else is not substantially different from you. However, this cannot be done in the two second crisis situation described in the opening post.

[QED]

Why should you be the one to eliminate so much potential? I would ask you not to push the button so that the current and future generations of people could continue to enjoy their own brief spell under the sun. Working backwards from this, people do enjoy things, have plans, hopes and curiosities. To even want to push your button you too must share these kinds of things and it would clearly be inequitable for your particular instantiation of an otherwise similar being to acquire precedence over all others in this choice.

[ollagram88]

i think too much is being read into the question (my fault! i know).

simply put, the theists can bring up God to convince me. this is not a matter of successfully convincing me within the two-second time frame or anything. strictly theoretical. what could you say to convince me?

a Christian could just say i might go to Hell.. i'm going to kill off the meaningful lives of humans.. life is a gift from God, don't waste it.

i want to know what an atheist would say.

PS: hitler has killed millions of people.

to put this in perpsective, let's say i'm hitler, and i'm confiding in you my plan to exterminate the jews and everyone who comes along in my path. i want to create a SUPER RACE by killing all those inferior. i am not open to any other alternatives (breeding, advocating research in genetic manupulation etc.). tell me why i shouldn't kill so many people, that the killing would be wrong.

just wanted to add, this is not really a matter of convincing me as it is wanting to there what the atheist would have to say. i realize if i were not christian and a christian started talking about irrelevant supernatural reasons to me, i would probably not be convinced. another way to reword the question is: by which principles should an atheist go by, so that he/she wouldn't kill so many people?

[QED]

In the case of atrocities such as genocide there is much suffering involved and I would expect that given our common appreciation of what suffering is, we could see that it shouldn't be inflicted: In this respect we can consider ourselves as a human collective assembling a collection of rules to a common game that we're all participating in. If we fail to enforce taboos about killing etc. we each run the risk of "reaping what we sow". This kind of game theory can be seen in practice when the heads of violent regimes often come to violent ends.

All moral dilemmas can be related to game theory in like ways. Prior to this formalism people probably thought it was God determining the rules. They migth not have realised that they were doing it themselves.