There is no rational reason to stop same sex marriage

[Evales]

It's hard for me to view homosexuality as that bad of a thing if someone is born to be that way. I could not judge them against it if they were born that way.

Ok, but what if it turns out to be entirely a matter of choice? Would you judge them against it then? If so, what harm, to others or themselves, would you invoke?

Homosexuality

Point 1) If biological it is something that God created and thus we should not be punished for it since it is natural.

Point 2) That being even if it is still a sin (or not biological) the people who commit acts of homosexuality are fully allowed (by God) to commit as many sins as they like. God gave us the freedom of choice to commit sins or to chose to follow him how we like.

Point 3) Also since not everyone believes there is an afterlife we have no reason to stop them from committing these "sins" if they do not hurt anyone. The only person they hurt is themselves (according to theists) because they will then go to Hell, a place that they do not even believe exists.


There is no rational reason for us to stop same sex marriage.
Throughout history ignorant and oppressive people have stopped certain minorities from gaining certain rights but we see a trend that these minorities are gradually allowed these rights.

To be honest I'm surprised we still oppress homosexuals and bisexuals. How archaic.

[Furrowed Brow]

I was trying to think of the rational reasons for anyone to get married let alone those of the same sex. Marriage in the UK used to be tax efficient. So a beneficial tax system would be a rational reason. Inheritance issues are also another rational reason. I guess there are probably various other financial reasons that make marriage the rational option. Then there is the statistical proof that children from stable marriages do better at school etc. So that would be a rational reason for getting married and staying married until the kids grow up. I think gay couples have previously face problems if one partner becomes say serioulsy ill. In the past they have found that decision regarding their life partners welfare passed to their family. Even if say they have lived with their partner for decades they faced being cut out of the deicsion making loop because they were not deemed next of kin. So their are some practical reasons why same sex marrige is rational.

On the whole I think very few of the married people I know got married for rational reasons.

[Flail]

Why would we, liars and theives and adulterers etc, ever judge people who care for each other but whose body parts don't match up?.....silly religion

[Evales]

I was trying to think of the rational reasons for anyone to get married let alone those of the same sex. Marriage in the UK used to be tax efficient. So a beneficial tax system would be a rational reason. Inheritance issues are also another rational reason. I guess there are probably various other financial reasons that make marriage the rational option. Then there is the statistical proof that children from stable marriages do better at school etc. So that would be a rational reason for getting married and staying married until the kids grow up. I think gay couples have previously face problems if one partner becomes say serioulsy ill. In the past they have found that decision regarding their life partners welfare passed to their family. Even if say they have lived with their partner for decades they faced being cut out of the deicsion making loop because they were not deemed next of kin. So their are some practical reasons why same sex marrige is rational.

On the whole I think very few of the married people I know go married for rational reasons.

Touche, love is very irrational

[Lionspoint]

Here in California it is currently legal. And the US Constitution guarantees their rights the same as anyone else. No matter how many Americans think otherwise, freedom trumps faith...

[Fallibleone]

I recently had some fascinating discussions on a balcony overlooking Lake Garda concerning homosexuality and gay marriage. I mentioned that I saw nothing wrong with either, while the other contributor found both vile, disgusting and unnatural. When pressed, however, he could come up with nothing whatsoever which would pass as a valid reason for why it is 'wrong', apart from 'I don't like it'. Interestingly, although he is now a confirmed atheist, he spent the first 20 years of his life as a Catholic. I guess that it can take a lifetime to throw off previously-held belief if it is ingrained enough, no matter how vigorously we thrash.

To paraphrase someone much cleverer than I am, I see no reason why gay people should not be allowed to be as miserable as the rest of us if they want to be.

[Evales]

Who said no and didn't offer any reasoning? Oh no no no thats no fun. Come back.

[micatala]

I recently had some fascinating discussions on a balcony overlooking Lake Garda concerning homosexuality and gay marriage. I mentioned that I saw nothing wrong with either, while the other contributor found both vile, disgusting and unnatural. When pressed, however, he could come up with nothing whatsoever which would pass as a valid reason for why it is 'wrong', apart from 'I don't like it'. Interestingly, although he is now a confirmed atheist, he spent the first 20 years of his life as a Catholic. I guess that it can take a lifetime to throw off previously-held belief if it is ingrained enough, no matter how vigorously we thrash.

To paraphrase someone much cleverer than I am, I see no reason why gay people should not be allowed to be as miserable as the rest of us if they want to be.

We tend to blame certain segments of religious believers for anti-gay bigotry, but it is worth pointing out that a lot of anti-gay bigotry is simply what I refer to as "their different." Certainly when I grew up, the kids making fun of and harassing anyone even suspected of being gay were not motivated by religion.

I would even venture to say that many of those who couch their anti-gay rhetoric in religious terms are not really motivated by their religious beliefs, but just see gays as "yucky" or "wierd" and find it convenient to point to particular passages of the Bible to justify their attitude. One big evidence for this is the hypocrisy that is typically engaged in. Many believers cannot explain why it is OK to pass laws against gays on the basis of a few Bible verses but is not OK to pass laws against other 'sins' or behaviors that are spoken against in the Bible.

Divorce, for example, is very clearly condemned by Jesus himself except when the spouse is unfaithful. Remarriage is also not allowed. How come the "Defense of Marriage Acts" that are being promulgated don't include divorce and remarriage when clearly many, many more people engage in these behaviors and they are pretty clearly a lot more harmful to marriages and families than gay marriage?

[JoeyKnothead]

Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!

Let all live as they must, in freedom, in harmony, in the seeking of their happiness wherever it lies. Let no man yoke another with their bigotry, or deny them the right to seek what their conscious seeks. Keep those who would deny anyone their rights afraid, scared of what freedom allows. Its not enough to seek your happiness, you must seek happiness for all. If this interferes with you, stay at home, hidden away from the happiness of others. Shutter your doors and windows and stay blind to the freedom everyone is allowed.

Never let it go, and seek it always. Against those that would deny your freedom, fight them with the Constitution, or fight them with arms. Batter them with the liberty our Constitution demands. Never cower from oppression, stand up to it, confront it, and destroy it. Point out the oppressors, finger their intolerance.

Those who would deny the rights of others will soon deny more rights. As they take rights away, they will gain strength with each new oppression. Hammer away at the walls that separate us, and build from that rubble new paths to understanding. Knock down the barriers of oppression and bigotry. Knock them down and trample them beneath your feet. Destroy all oppression, and be free like our forefathers said we are.

Leave the oppressors to the misery your freedom brings them. Let them wallow in the sadness your happiness brings you. Oppressors will use every means to do you harm, so you too must use every means to stop them. Never let up, never give an inch. Keep pushing back. Demand more, take more, and destroy the oppressors tools. Destroy the oppressors will to inflict their tyranny on anyone.

Many good men and women have died for the very freedoms the oppressors seek to deny you. Do those fallen proud. Fight the cause they were fighting. Make the oppressors fear the night and the day. Make them always look around in fear that freedom just might sneak up on them.

Flaunt your freedom at every turn, on every corner. Show the oppressors we who demand freedom will not stop until ALL are free to live as they see fit. Show the oppressors their ways will not be tolerated, nor forgiven. Let the oppressors know that liberty is for all. And for all we will continue the fight for freedom.

[Fallibleone]

I recently had some fascinating discussions on a balcony overlooking Lake Garda concerning homosexuality and gay marriage. I mentioned that I saw nothing wrong with either, while the other contributor found both vile, disgusting and unnatural. When pressed, however, he could come up with nothing whatsoever which would pass as a valid reason for why it is 'wrong', apart from 'I don't like it'. Interestingly, although he is now a confirmed atheist, he spent the first 20 years of his life as a Catholic. I guess that it can take a lifetime to throw off previously-held belief if it is ingrained enough, no matter how vigorously we thrash.

To paraphrase someone much cleverer than I am, I see no reason why gay people should not be allowed to be as miserable as the rest of us if they want to be.

We tend to blame certain segments of religious believers for anti-gay bigotry, but it is worth pointing out that a lot of anti-gay bigotry is simply what I refer to as "their different." Certainly when I grew up, the kids making fun of and harassing anyone even suspected of being gay were not motivated by religion.

I would even venture to say that many of those who couch their anti-gay rhetoric in religious terms are not really motivated by their religious beliefs, but just see gays as "yucky" or "wierd" and find it convenient to point to particular passages of the Bible to justify their attitude. One big evidence for this is the hypocrisy that is typically engaged in. Many believers cannot explain why it is OK to pass laws against gays on the basis of a few Bible verses but is not OK to pass laws against other 'sins' or behaviors that are spoken against in the Bible.

Divorce, for example, is very clearly condemned by Jesus himself except when the spouse is unfaithful. Remarriage is also not allowed. How come the "Defense of Marriage Acts" that are being promulgated don't include divorce and remarriage when clearly many, many more people engage in these behaviors and they are pretty clearly a lot more harmful to marriages and families than gay marriage?

Very valid points, all of them. It may indeed be the case that my father's anti-gay stance (he was the other contributor) has nothing to do with the fact that he is an ex-Catholic. That may be coincidental. I may have made the mistake of blaming religion where it was not to blame. I may have. Perhaps there is no way of knowing. Let's face it, there are probably a fair few atheists who have never been religious and still do not approve of gay marriage.

I certainly take on board the suggestion that if something is extra unpalateable in addition to being a 'sin', it seems to be more likely to be the target of calls for legislation to outlaw it from some quarters.