Should holding an incorrect opinion be a right? What obligation does this alleged right put on those who hold other opinions?ChristianGuy wrote:you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
Are you entitled to your opinion?
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- McCulloch
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Are you entitled to your opinion?
Post #1Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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Re: Are you entitled to your opinion?
Post #2.
Even as the right of speech existed under the Constitution, it was not interpreted as an absolute right; that is there are legal limitations on what one may say. Generally this has taken the form of prohibition of "speech" that threatens, endangers or defames others.
Assault (including verbal assult) is a criminal act (a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person -- as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner -- that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact)
Perjury (the voluntary violation of an oath or vow either by swearing to what is untrue or by omission to do what has been promised under oath) is a criminal act.
Liable and slander are actionable in civil court and other offenses arising from legally defined misuse of speech are matters for criminal or civil court action.
That said, from my perspective, an opinion (silent or expressed) is an entitlement of US citizens provided that the expression of opinion does not directly damage others.
If one accepts freedom of thought and freedom of speech, an opinion is a "right". In the US those rights were granted by the Constitution and its amendments (Bill of Rights). There has been a trend toward degradation of citizen rights in the US in favor of government power / control and therefore it is difficult to state to what extent citizens still are guaranteed the right of speech.McCulloch wrote:Should holding an incorrect opinion be a right? What obligation does this alleged right put on those who hold other opinions?ChristianGuy wrote:you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
Even as the right of speech existed under the Constitution, it was not interpreted as an absolute right; that is there are legal limitations on what one may say. Generally this has taken the form of prohibition of "speech" that threatens, endangers or defames others.
Assault (including verbal assult) is a criminal act (a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person -- as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner -- that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact)
Perjury (the voluntary violation of an oath or vow either by swearing to what is untrue or by omission to do what has been promised under oath) is a criminal act.
Liable and slander are actionable in civil court and other offenses arising from legally defined misuse of speech are matters for criminal or civil court action.
That said, from my perspective, an opinion (silent or expressed) is an entitlement of US citizens provided that the expression of opinion does not directly damage others.
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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Post #3
I usually see this statement made when one is unable to prove their position. I think sub/consciously it's a way for the claimant to avoid admitting they are wrong. It could also be a way for the claimant to try to stake out a moral high ground, "My position is superior, but I'm such a great guy I'm gonna allow you to maintain your position."
Some will use it though in a somewhat exasperated way, and this will usually be followed with why the opposing view is wrong. I find this to be no more than exasperation, as opposed to the previous example of not admitting defeat. "You're wrong, as is your right, but here's where you're wrong."
(edited for clarity)
Some will use it though in a somewhat exasperated way, and this will usually be followed with why the opposing view is wrong. I find this to be no more than exasperation, as opposed to the previous example of not admitting defeat. "You're wrong, as is your right, but here's where you're wrong."
(edited for clarity)
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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- McCulloch
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Post #4
I have my opinions and you have yours. No one can change that, so how can there be any kind of right to one's own opinion? How can it be protected in any way?
I have no obligation to hear, believe or give credence to anyone else's opinion. So I don't see in what way it is a right. I have the right to the freedom of speech. That implies an obligation on the part of society not to censor my speech. I have other rights, each one confers obligations on others. The alleged right to my opinion confers no obligations on anyone else and others' right to their opinion confers no obligation on me.
When someone says that they have the right to their opinion, it is my experience that it simply means that they do not wish to discuss the matter any more, they are not open to facts or arguments that might change their opinion. The matter is closed.
I have no obligation to hear, believe or give credence to anyone else's opinion. So I don't see in what way it is a right. I have the right to the freedom of speech. That implies an obligation on the part of society not to censor my speech. I have other rights, each one confers obligations on others. The alleged right to my opinion confers no obligations on anyone else and others' right to their opinion confers no obligation on me.
When someone says that they have the right to their opinion, it is my experience that it simply means that they do not wish to discuss the matter any more, they are not open to facts or arguments that might change their opinion. The matter is closed.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
- realthinker
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Re: Are you entitled to your opinion?
Post #5I believe that having an opinion is like breathing. The only way to completely stop one from doing it is to kill them.McCulloch wrote:Should holding an incorrect opinion be a right? What obligation does this alleged right put on those who hold other opinions?ChristianGuy wrote:you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
Voicing one's opinion, on the other hand, making it public, is perhaps another matter. What happens when one voices an opinion in public is a matter of cultural convention. You may find yourself protected from another's contempt and the consequences of such contempt, but then again, you may find otherwise.
If all the ignorance in the world passed a second ago, what would you say? Who would you obey?
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Re: Are you entitled to your opinion?
Post #6A person has every right to hold an opinion, regardless of how outlandish or insane it may be. Others can try to dissuade them from this opinion, but they don't have the right to physically disallow them from thinking or expressing it.McCulloch wrote:Should holding an incorrect opinion be a right? What obligation does this alleged right put on those who hold other opinions?ChristianGuy wrote:you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
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Post #7
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Opinion is thought (and need not be expressed to qualify as being an opinion). If we maintain that a person has "no right to an opinion" we are saying that they have no right to their thoughts. I disagree with that position.
Of course, this is all my opinion to which I think I am entitled – and I am so bold as to suggest that in a relatively free society I also have a right to express the opinion (though others may disagree and I may risk their disapproval).
You have no obligation to hear anyone's speech (in most societies) or to believe or give credence to what anyone else says. Does that imply they have no right to speak?McCulloch wrote:I have no obligation to hear, believe or give credence to anyone else's opinion. So I don't see in what way it is a right.
Opinion is thought (and need not be expressed to qualify as being an opinion). If we maintain that a person has "no right to an opinion" we are saying that they have no right to their thoughts. I disagree with that position.
In my opinion, society has an obligation to not censor your opinions (thoughts).McCulloch wrote:I have the right to the freedom of speech. That implies an obligation on the part of society not to censor my speech.
Each right we possess as individuals DOES obligate others to respect our right and to not take it away.McCulloch wrote:I have other rights, each one confers obligations on others. The alleged right to my opinion confers no obligations on anyone else and others' right to their opinion confers no obligation on me.
I see that as recognition that an impasse has developed and that there is little likelihood that either party will concede or adjust.McCulloch wrote:When someone says that they have the right to their opinion, it is my experience that it simply means that they do not wish to discuss the matter any more, they are not open to facts or arguments that might change their opinion. The matter is closed.
Of course, this is all my opinion to which I think I am entitled – and I am so bold as to suggest that in a relatively free society I also have a right to express the opinion (though others may disagree and I may risk their disapproval).
.
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Re: Are you entitled to your opinion?
Post #8I find your question awkwardly worded. If you refer to my personal thoughts I challenge you to take those thoughts away. It's like saying "I have a right to allow my blood to flow through my veins". Well, I guess you do as no one else has a "right" to try to stop this process.McCulloch wrote:Should holding an incorrect opinion be a right? What obligation does this alleged right put on those who hold other opinions?ChristianGuy wrote:you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
Now, if you mean by opinions the right to express them at any time anywhere then I say you don't necessarily have that right. Of course, this is already a given. If a scientist of any flavor continues to post his opinion on something that has been shown conclusively to be wrong then I imagine at some point that same scientist may find himself out of a job for said opinion. But even the expression of a "bad" opinion can only be given consequences for having expressed it. If I want to continue to yell "fire" in that crowded theatre I certainly can until I am blue in the face as long as I am willing to tolerate the consequences.
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Re: Are you entitled to your opinion?
Post #9So then how is the right to one's opinion any different from their right to life?realthinker wrote:I believe that having an opinion is like breathing. The only way to completely stop one from doing it is to kill them.
This describes the the right to freedom of speech, not the right of one's opinion.realthinker wrote:Voicing one's opinion, on the other hand, making it public, is perhaps another matter. What happens when one voices an opinion in public is a matter of cultural convention. You may find yourself protected from another's contempt and the consequences of such contempt, but then again, you may find otherwise.
If it is impossible to prevent one from holding an opinion, how then can anyone say with any kind of meaning that they have the right. Do you have the right to fall down? How can the right to one's opinion have meaning, like the other rights: right of way, free speech, freedom of association, fair trial, freedom from discrimination, freedom of religion etc. ?Homicidal_Cherry53 wrote:A person has every right to hold an opinion, regardless of how outlandish or insane it may be. Others can try to dissuade them from this opinion, but they don't have the right to physically disallow them from thinking or expressing it.
Freedom of speech is a constitutionally protected right. The right to one's own opinion, is oxymoronic.Zzyzx wrote:You have no obligation to hear anyone's speech (in most societies) or to believe or give credence to what anyone else says. Does that imply they have no right to speak?
No, what I am saying is that the expression of the freedom we all have to our own opinions is self-evident (thank you Jefferson) and to express that freedom as a right is meaningless because it cannot be taken away. Thus this alleged right confers no obligation on anyone to honor it.Zzyzx wrote:Opinion is thought (and need not be expressed to qualify as being an opinion). If we maintain that a person has "no right to an opinion" we are saying that they have no right to their thoughts. I disagree with that position.
If someone wanted to censor your thoughts, how would they go about doing that? Once expressed, it is covered under freedom of speech, the press, religion and association.Zzyzx wrote:In my opinion, society has an obligation to not censor your opinions (thoughts).
Yes, that is my point. If the right to your opinion is a right, what obligation does your right to your opinion put on me? I don't see any.Zzyzx wrote:Each right we possess as individuals DOES obligate others to respect our right and to not take it away.
Yes, that is called the right of free speech, constitutionally protected in both of our countries.Zzyzx wrote:n a relatively free society I also have a right to express the opinion.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
Re: Are you entitled to your opinion?
Post #10To paraphrase ]Marx (Groucho that is) - these are my opinions, if you don't like them, that's OK - I have others.McCulloch wrote:Should holding an incorrect opinion be a right? What obligation does this alleged right put on those who hold other opinions?ChristianGuy wrote:you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj