RCC is evil institution

[PetriFB]

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Catho ... and%20pope

Roman Catholic Church and its doctrine is non biblical and deception. Behind the link is writing which handles RCC doctrine very extensively and shows by the word of God that doctrines of RCC are non biblical and deceptions.

[jmac2112]

My Catholic Bible has 27 books in the NT. I know that Luther wanted to get rid of James, but I don't think he did it. I know some Protestants have problems with Maccabees in the OT, because it mentions praying for the dead. If there are any Protestant churches out there that reject any of the 27 NT books, I'd be interested to find out.

[Goat]

That is circular reasoning of course. That is because the RCC looks at the books your copy doesn't have as authoritative, and so does the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which has even a wider canon.

There are vastly more number of Christians that accept the books you have ripped out of your bible as authoritative than not.

When did the RCC start looking at the books that aren't among the 27 in the NT used by non-catholics as authoritative?

Actually, you got it 100% backwards. Martin Luther, in the reformation, decided to get some books removed. Since there are equal amounts of catholics verses all the rest of the denominations combined, there are more people that accept certain books that Martin Luther disapproved of that didn't.

[ren]

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Catho ... and%20pope

Roman Catholic Church and its doctrine is non biblical and deception. Behind the link is writing which handles RCC doctrine very extensively and shows by the word of God that doctrines of RCC are non biblical and deceptions.

haha, this is a really funny one I am not going to browse through that link you provided, but could you please share your attitude towards the RC church (besides your aforementioned comment obviously) so we could probably settle some issues you might have

[Amos]

That is circular reasoning of course. That is because the RCC looks at the books your copy doesn't have as authoritative, and so does the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which has even a wider canon.

There are vastly more number of Christians that accept the books you have ripped out of your bible as authoritative than not.

When did the RCC start looking at the books that aren't among the 27 in the NT used by non-catholics as authoritative?

Actually, you got it 100% backwards. Martin Luther, in the reformation, decided to get some books removed. Since there are equal amounts of catholics verses all the rest of the denominations combined, there are more people that accept certain books that Martin Luther disapproved of that didn't.

When was the apocrypha recognized as canonical by the RCC? Are any of the apocryphal books quoted by Jesus or the apostles in the NT? Do Jews recognize the apocryphal books as part of their scriptures?

Why do you keep insisting Martin Luther gave us the 66 book bible?

[Goat]

That is circular reasoning of course. That is because the RCC looks at the books your copy doesn't have as authoritative, and so does the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which has even a wider canon.

There are vastly more number of Christians that accept the books you have ripped out of your bible as authoritative than not.

When did the RCC start looking at the books that aren't among the 27 in the NT used by non-catholics as authoritative?

Actually, you got it 100% backwards. Martin Luther, in the reformation, decided to get some books removed. Since there are equal amounts of catholics verses all the rest of the denominations combined, there are more people that accept certain books that Martin Luther disapproved of that didn't.

When was the apocrypha recognized as canonical by the RCC? Are any of the apocryphal books quoted by Jesus or the apostles in the NT? Do Jews recognize the apocryphal books as part of their scriptures?

Why do you keep insisting Martin Luther gave us the 66 book bible?

In the Catholic bible, they are considered ''Deuterocanonical', or 'secondary canon'.

In the Ethiopian Orthodox Church they, and a bunch of others are considered 'The wider canon'

If you get a Catholic bible today, you will find Tobias, Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Baruch, and Maccabees in them.

[catalyst]

That is circular reasoning of course. That is because the RCC looks at the books your copy doesn't have as authoritative, and so does the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which has even a wider canon.

There are vastly more number of Christians that accept the books you have ripped out of your bible as authoritative than not.

When did the RCC start looking at the books that aren't among the 27 in the NT used by non-catholics as authoritative?

Actually, you got it 100% backwards. Martin Luther, in the reformation, decided to get some books removed. Since there are equal amounts of catholics verses all the rest of the denominations combined, there are more people that accept certain books that Martin Luther disapproved of that didn't.

When was the apocrypha recognized as canonical by the RCC? Are any of the apocryphal books quoted by Jesus or the apostles in the NT? Do Jews recognize the apocryphal books as part of their scriptures?

Why do you keep insisting Martin Luther gave us the 66 book bible?

In the Catholic bible, they are considered ''Deuterocanonical', or 'secondary canon'.

In the Ethiopian Orthodox Church they, and a bunch of others are considered 'The wider canon'

If you get a Catholic bible today, you will find Tobias, Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Baruch, and Maccabees in them.

Catholic bibles have 73 books where has the protestant version has only 66.

As goat stated in part, Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Wisdom, Sirach, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and parts of Esther and Daniel are missing from the protestant version.

Luther, without any authority whatsoever, removed those books and placed them in an appendix during the reformation. They remained in the appendix of protestant bibles until about 1826, and then they were removed all together.

Perhaps if you want to know more, sus out the origins of Sola Scriptura. Google those two words up and you will find much info.

[I AM ALL I AM]

The Bible is God's word.

Which bible is that ???

American Standard Version (ASV)
Amplified Bible
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
English Standard Version (ESV)
English Standard Version â„¢
Good News Translation (GNT)
God's Word Bible
International Standard Version (ISV)
John Darby's New Translation
King James Version (KJV)
The New King James Version (NKJV)
Literal Translation Version [Green] (LITV)
New American Bible (NAB)
New American Standard (NASB)
New Century Version (NCV)
New English Bible (NEB)
New English Translationâ„¢ (NET)
The New International Version (NIV)
New Jerusalem Bible
New King James Version (NKJV)
New Life Version (NLV)
New Living Translation (NLT)
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Modern King James Version [Green's Translation] (MKJV)
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Revised Young's Literal Translation (RYLT)
Rotherham's
The Living Bible (LB)
The Message
Today's English Version (TEV)
Today's New International Version (TNIV)
Transparent English Version
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Weymouth New Testament Translation

Above is a small listing of some of the different bibles.

Is the 'Word of God' contained in one of the above listed bibles ???

When you decide which bible is the 'Word of God', would you please explain why it is the 'Word of God' and show proof as to the veracity of your claim.

[I AM ALL I AM]

"The Church admits that vital elements of the proceedings at Nicaea are 'strangely absent from the cannons' (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley Ed., iii, p. 160) and we shall see shortly what happened to them. However, using records that endured Eusebius, 'occupied the first seat on the right of the emperor and delivered the inaugural address on the emperor's behalf' (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley Ed., v, pp. 619-620). There were no british presbyters at the council (Catholic Encyclopedia Farley Ed., xv, p. 582) but many Greek delegates. 'Seventy eastern bishops' represented Asiatic factions (Ecclesiastical History, Bishop Louis Dupin, Vol. i, p. 598), Caecilian of Carthage traveled from Africa; Paphnutius from Egypt, Nicasius of Die from Gaul and Dommus of Stridon made the journey from Pannonia. Important for our story is the fact that a large number of Nabatean Arabs were in attendance, and they were lead by Simon of Petra. Shortly we will learn how his name appeared in the New testament.

It was at that puerile assembly, and under cult conditions, that a total of 318 'bishop's, priests, deacons, sub-deacons, acolytes and exorcists' (Apology for Christianity, Dr. Richard Watson, 1796) gathered to debate and decide upon a unified belief system that encompassed only one god. By this time a huge assortment of 'wild texts' (Catholic Encyclopedia, New Ed., 'Gospel and Gospels') circulated amongst presbyters, and the supported a great variety of Eastern and Western Gods and Goddesses; Ares, Apollo, Hermes, Atermis, Zeus, Athena, 'the Sun and the Moon (Acts of Phillip, 1:1), Mars, Jove, Mithra, Krishna, Bel (Baal), Attis, Odin, Tammuz, Indra, Promethius, Hurcules, Janus, Sin, Doinysius, Bacchus, Jupiter, Diana, Alcestos, the Divine Julius, Serapis, Isis, Osiris.

Up until the Council of Nicaea, Roman aristocracy primarily worshipped two Greek gods, Apollo and Zues, but the great bulk of common people idolized either Julius Caesar or Mithra. Caesar was deified by the Roman senate after his death (d. 15th March 44 B.C.) and subsequently venerated as the Divine Julius. The word 'saviour' was affixed to his name, it's literal meaning being, 'one who sows the seed', i.e. a phallic god. Caesar was hailed as 'God made manifest and universal Saviour of human life', and his successor, Augustus was called the 'ancestral God and saviour of the whole human race' (Man and his Gods, Homer Smith, Little, Brown and Co., Boston, 1952). Emperor Nero (37-68), who's original name was L.Domitius Ahenobarbus, was immortalized on his coins as the 'Saviour of mankind' (ibid). Because the Divine Julius was Roman Saviour and 'Father of the Empire', he was considered god among the Roman rabble for more than 300 years. He was the deity in some Western presbyters texts, but was not recognised in Eastern or Oriental writings.

Constantine's intention at Nicaea was to, 'create an entirely new god for his Empire' (Confessions of a Vatican Archivist) that would unite all religious factions under one deity, and presbyters were asked to debate and decide who their new god would be. Delegates argued among themselves, expressing personal motives for inclusion for particular writings that promoted the finer traits of their own special divinity. Throughout the meeting, howling factions were immersed in heated debates, and the names of 53 gods were tabled for discussion; 'As yet, the new God had not been selected by the council, and so they balloted, in oder to determine the matter; for one year and five months the balloting lasted' (God's Book of Eskra, xlviii, 26-53 Prof. S.L MacGuire's trans, Salisbury, 1921).

At the end of the time, Constantine returned to the gathering to discover that the presbyters had not agreed on a new deity, but had balloted down to a short list of five prospects, namely, Caesar, Krishna, Mithra, Horus, and Zeus. Constantine was the ruling spirit at Nicaea and he ultimately decided upon the new god for them. To involve British factions he ruled that the name of the mighty Druid God, Hesus (crucified in Britian and later restored to life), be joined with the Eastern saviour - god, Krishna (Krishna is Sanskrit for Christ), and thus a caricature, or the personification of an ideal, Hesus Krishna, would be the name of the new Roman God. A vote was taken, and it was with a majority show of hands that both divinities became one god ... 161 to 157. Following long-standing heathen customs, Constantine used the official gathering and the Roman Apotheoses Decree to legally deify two deities as one, and did so by democratic consent. A new God was proclaimed and 'officially ratified by Constantine' (Acta Councilii Niceni, Colon, 1618). That purely political act of deification effectively, and legally, placed Hesus and Krishna among the Roman Gods as one individual composition. That abstraction leant earthly existence to amalgamated doctrines for the Empire's new religion, an wen the letter "J" was introduced into alphabets around the ninth century, the linguistic relic of the name became Jesus Christ."

Pages 23 - 25.


"Nogara acquired for the Vatican outright ownership of a host of medium-sized and small rural banks in southern Italy, along with a controlling interest in the Banco di Roma (founded in 1808), the Bank of the Holy Spirit (founded in 1608), Banca Commerciale Italiana, Banca Cattolica del Veneto, Banca Unione, Credit Italiano, Banca Provinciola Lambarda, and the prestigous Banco Ambrosiano in Milan. .....

Page 149.


"..... The Holy Mother Church continued to accumulate vast wealth, and to such an extent that by 1953, and still under management of Nogara ...

... the Vatican controlled more than ninety of Italy's one hundred and eighty credit, banking and insurance institutions. One of the largest of these concerns was La Centrale, a company that provided medium and long term credit for projects in agriculture, hydro-electricity, mining and engineering ... by 1968 La Centrale possessed $107 million in capital and $277 million in assets ... Italcementi, another Vatican-controlled company, supplied over 30 percent of the cement in Italy and owned a financial house called Italmobiliare. italmobiliare, in turn, owned eight banks with cumulative assets of $512 million and capital reserves of $22 million. In addition, the financial house held control of the Banca Provinciale Lombardo and the Credit Commerciale di cremona whose combined deposits exceeded $1.2 billion.

(The Vatican Exposed, Dr. Paul L. Williams, Prometheus Books, New York, 2003, p. 83)

Page 176.


"Around that time it was found it was found in New York State banking records that the Roman Catholic Church showed investments in stocks and bonds with hundreds of corporations. Among others, were included Goodyear Tire & Rubber, Firestone, Colgate, Standard Oil, Atlantic City Convention Hall, Baltimore & Ohio R.R., Rock Island, General Foods, Savoy Plaza Hotel, Proctor & Gamble, Eire, Seaboard, Missouri, Pacific, Pere Marquette; Fisk, US Rubber, Bethlehem Steel, Press Steel Car, Unilever, Trumbull Steel, American Smelting; Commonwealth Edison, Brooklyn Edison, NY Edison, Pacific Gas & Electric, Montana Power Co., Indiana Electric, Oklahoma Gas and Electric, West Penn Power, American Commonwealth Power, Texas Electric, Louisiana Hotel Co., Squire Building, Lane Bryant, Fox Playhouses, Fox Theatre (St. Louis), Denver Joint Stock Land Bank, Nationa Dairy, Thermoid, Washington Silk, Westinghouse and Pillsbury Flour (The Vatican Empire, Nino Lo Bello, Trident Press, New York, 1968; The Vatican Billions, Baron Avro Manhattan, Paravision Books, London, 1972; The Vatican Papers, Nino Lo Bello, New English library (a division of Hodder and Stoughton, Ltd.), Kent, 1982, p. 229). At around the same time the Vatican became a major stockholder in US companies such as Gulf Oil, General Motors and IBM. ....."

Page 183.


"..... According to these estimates, the Holy See owned between 15 and 20 percent of the total stocks quoted on the Italian Stock Exchange. ....."

Page 193.


"The value of suppressed artworks

And what about the US$40 million (1966 estimate) collection of suppressed artworks kept under lock and key in a permanent storage by order of the Italian Government acting on a Vatican directive? ..... Because these artworks are generally of a pornographic nature, they have been classified by the Vatican, and, at Vatican command, legally certified by the Italian government as 'unfit for human observation' (ibid), in spite of the fact that many of them were created by Italian artists Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519), Michaelangelo Buonarroti (1474-1564) and Raphael Sanzio (1483-1529). .....

Although art directories and Italian guide books never officially list which painters and sculptors created these works, it is generally known that the banned masterpieces depict scenes of asexual nature, and invariably involve certain of Christendom's most revered heroes and heroines ... Jesus Christ, Virgin Mary and Mary Magdeline. These paintings have been in seclusion in the Uffizi Palace for centuries and various staff members have, at times, provided descriptions of these works, and they reveal why they are so sensitive to the Vatican. There is not the slightest chance that these masterpieces will be seen openly or put up for sale, not publicly anyway, for one painting by Raphael shows an ecstatic Jesus Christ having passionate sex with an equally naked and voluptuous Mary Magdeline. For the governing body of international authors who believe Jesus was married to Mary Magdeline, this image would provide a graphic cover photo for a book, and, for that reason it is highly improbable that the Vatican will ever allow it to be photographed or reproduced. Of a similar vein, another masterpiece the church would rather the world not see is called 'The Conception of Jesus Christ', and it depicts Virgin Mary nude and in sexual rapture with a bearded, long-haired old man also in heavenly bliss ... God, who, according to the Gospel, 'came upon her'.

But there is something of more importance in this hidden collection and it has far-reaching implications for the Holy Mother Church. It is a recorded fact that Leonardo-Michaelangelo-Raphael triumvirate was in receipt of a papal secret that had been confided to them by three particular popes ... Alexander VI (1431-1503), Julius II (1443-1513) and Leo X (1475-1521). It was these three popes who commissioned the creation of a considerable number of artworks and sculptures by the three masters who all, at some period in their lives, lived in luxurious quarters at the Palazzo del Belvedere (British Museum, 279, v), a villa on the Vatican Hill. They dined regularly with the popes, and it is generally believed that Leonardo was involved with a homosexual relationship with one or more of the popes. It was with a series of documented papal confessions that strengthened the suspicion that these three masters were in receipt of forbidden knowledge about Christian origins, and surreptitiously secreted that information into their sculptures and paintings. A number of the suppressed paintings and statues show Jesus naked on the cross, and as can be seen, not one of these works is visible anywhere in Italy because of the Vatican's intervention and control of these ancient works. Any artwork that depicts a naked crucified Jesus is anathema to the Church ... especially if the figure is not that of a man, but of a woman. There are at least 50 such works in this collection, and in the opinion of this author, the depictions of a female Jesus Christ, a Goddess, is the reason why these masterpieces are being kept under wraps. The cover-up of the 'female principle' in Christianity is revealed in an upcoming new book by this author called, The Secret Gospel Ciphers and it unlocks the great secret of the popes, the Cathars, the Knights Templar and the priest at Rennes-le-Chateau, in the South of France."

Pages 212-214.


"This is a case where the absence of records is more eloquent than their presence, but a recently released estimate by a Church of England source revealed the total world-wide value of the Catholic fortune at US$3,500 billion.

Page 224.

The Papal Billions - Tony Bushby

While I totally agree that the RCC can be considered "evil", it is far from the only christian church that could be considered "evil".

By the way, Nogara, 'God's Banker', was also Adolf Hitler's financial advisor prior to joining the Vatican.

[I AM ALL I AM]

Salvation is not by faith only.

Are we saved through works?

* Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."

* Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."

* Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."

vs.

* James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

* Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."

The common defense here is that "we are saved by faith and works." But Paul said "not of works."

http://ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=contra

Considering that there are contradictory statements in the bible about whether or not you can be saved by faith alone, or works alone, how do you choose one statement to believe and reject those from the bible are contrdictory ???