The purpose of the "Gay" Crusade

[TheQuestioner]

When i was about ten years of age i attended church on a regular basis. I remember vividly that i few times in sunday school i was taught that being LGBT was horridly wrong, and also that Muslims were sad people because they put so much time and effort into the "wrong religion". Now I tried hard to believe this, but in the end even as a ten year old i couldn't, i couldn't see what was wrong with being gay, and this has got me wondering. What is the purpose of targeting and discriminating homosexuals, what would it achieve for any church base except alienate a portion of their church body? and lastly Why isn't this energy spent on something that does not alienate people and can universally be considered bad, like adultery?


please help me out it confuses me so much at times.


sorry if a similar thread exists i'm new here

[East of Eden]

I personally have NO problems with Gays. Since when does religious worship involve sex with other Church members? Why should we care what other people do? Why don't we take that speck out of our own eye before out of our brothers and sisters?

How is being Gay worse than harvesting a jealous mind or any other sin? Where in the Bible does it say one sin is greater than the other? I am sure all who have read the Bible would have noticed that "The price of ALL sin is death." However how do we deal with the sin within us? ANY Christian who says they are without sin are of an anti-Chrisitan spirit. We all deserve death for how we live our life, that is unavoidable, so no one is in a better position than another. Thou shalt not judge, leave the judgement to God, too many crazy Christians tend to think they know the scales in which God will judge with, their judgemental hearts will be in for a shock when they stand before God.

Also, I have not read anywhere in the Bible where it says a monogamous Gay relationship is wrong. The Bible constantly hits on sex as a recreation with many people. Sodom was destoyed because people had sex with everyone. Leviticus says a man lying with another man, God hates it, but is this hitting on the ritual orgies that existed in cults at that time? Romans says, "gives us the natural desire and burns for lust for other men". Someone who is born gay, I doubt they ever gave up their natural desire for the opposite sex. So no where does it say, a loving monogamous Gay relationship is wrong. One can even read through the Bible of some loving Gay relationships that MIGHT have existed!

I am not saying I know how all people determine that they are Gay, I would have to be all of those people to know it well enough. I find it amusing that some straight Christians think they know how people become Gay and make such harsh judgement upon it.

I realize you don't give a fig what the Bible says, but it says sex is ideally between a married man and woman.

[OpenedUp]

I personally have NO problems with Gays. Since when does religious worship involve sex with other Church members? Why should we care what other people do? Why don't we take that speck out of our own eye before out of our brothers and sisters?

How is being Gay worse than harvesting a jealous mind or any other sin? Where in the Bible does it say one sin is greater than the other? I am sure all who have read the Bible would have noticed that "The price of ALL sin is death." However how do we deal with the sin within us? ANY Christian who says they are without sin are of an anti-Chrisitan spirit. We all deserve death for how we live our life, that is unavoidable, so no one is in a better position than another. Thou shalt not judge, leave the judgement to God, too many crazy Christians tend to think they know the scales in which God will judge with, their judgemental hearts will be in for a shock when they stand before God.

Also, I have not read anywhere in the Bible where it says a monogamous Gay relationship is wrong. The Bible constantly hits on sex as a recreation with many people. Sodom was destoyed because people had sex with everyone. Leviticus says a man lying with another man, God hates it, but is this hitting on the ritual orgies that existed in cults at that time? Romans says, "gives us the natural desire and burns for lust for other men". Someone who is born gay, I doubt they ever gave up their natural desire for the opposite sex. So no where does it say, a loving monogamous Gay relationship is wrong. One can even read through the Bible of some loving Gay relationships that MIGHT have existed!

I am not saying I know how all people determine that they are Gay, I would have to be all of those people to know it well enough. I find it amusing that some straight Christians think they know how people become Gay and make such harsh judgement upon it.

I realize you don't give a fig what the Bible says, but it says sex is ideally between a married man and woman.

The Bible says a lot of things, and a lot of those things are ridiculous...

http://www.holysmoke.org/hs00/to-hell!.htm

You Are Going To Hell If You....
* eat fruit from a tree less than five years old. [Lev. 19:23]
* cross-breed animals. [Lev. 19:19]
* grow two different plants in your garden. [Lev. 19:19]
* wear a cotton-polyester blend T-Shirt. [Lev. 19:19]
* read your horoscope. [Lev. 19:26]
* consult a psychic. [Lev. 19:31]
* cut your hair. [Lev. 19:27]
* trim your beard. [Lev. 19:27]
* are tatooed. [Lev. 19:28]
* plant crops for more than seven years. [Lev. 25:4, Ex. 23:10-13]
* bear a grudge. [Lev. 19:17]
* collect interest on a loan. [Ex. 22:24]
* insult a leader. [Ex. 22:27]
* mistreat a foreigner. [Ex. 22:21, 23:9]
* spread false rumors. [Ex. 23:1] (Sorry, Pat Robertson!)
* drive a Mercury. [Ex. 23:13] (Look it up.)



Well, most people don't wait til they are married... so are they going to hell?


http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/30/vi ... newssearch

In the analysis, Rosenbaum compared 289 young adults who took virginity pledges in their teens with 645 young people who did not take such a pledge. The researcher was careful to only compare teens who had similar views on religion, birth control and sex in general, regardless of whether or not they took a pledge. Health.com: What should I do if the condom breaks?

Five years after the initial survey the study subjects were aged 20 to 23. Eighty-two percent of pledge takers denied (or forgot) they had ever taken such a vow. Overall pledge takers were no different from non-pledge takers in terms of their premarital sex, anal and oral sexual practices, and their probability of having a sexually transmitted disease.

Both groups lost their virginity at an average age of 21, had about three lifetime partners, and had similar rates of STDs. "And the majority were having premarital sex, over 50 percent," says Rosenbaum. Overall, roughly 75 percent of pledgers and non-pledgers were sexually active, and about one in five was married. Health.com: Who's most at risk for STDs?
Health Library

Unmarried pledgers, however, were less likely than non-pledgers to use birth control (64 percent of pledge takers and 70 percent of non-pledge takers said they used it most of the time) or condoms (42 percent of pledge takers and 54 percent of non-pledge takers said they used them most of the time).

And lets say two people do wait to have sex until their married, i still don't see how two gay people in any way affect that.

[kayky]

I realize you don't give a fig what the Bible says, but it says sex is ideally between a married man and woman.

Whether you are generous with your figs or not...the law of this land is not based on what the Bible says. In other words, the Bible is irrelevent when determining the law of this land. We have a different bible: it's called the Constitution. If you want to conduct your personal life according to the dictates of the Bible, that is your choice. You do not have the right to impose this on others.

[Jester]

Moderator Comment

I find it amusing that some straight Christians think they know how people become Gay and make such harsh judgement upon it.

I think it is because they are not as straight as they claim to be. I have no intrest in what two gay men do with each other. The protesting Christians have eloberate thoughts of what gays do behind closed doors. They are gay and it scares the crap out of them.

Stop projecting.

This exchange is clearly breaking down into opinion and name-calling. Speak less about the sub-conscious motivations of others, and more about the topic.

[israel]

there is no such thing as a gay crusade its clear in the book of leviticus 20-13 and in Romans 1-27 old and new testament speaks against homo sexuality so your crusade would be against God and his word which is the Bible and don't tell me that was for back then and that doesnt apply for today. Gods word is forever it out last kingdoms Romans 15-4 tells you the things written aforetime was written for our learning...........hebrews 13 - 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today,and forever.

[micatala]

there is no such thing as a gay crusade its clear in the book of leviticus 20-13 and in Romans 1-27 old and new testament speaks against homo sexuality so your crusade would be against God and his word which is the Bible and don't tell me that was for back then and that doesnt apply for today. Gods word is forever it out last kingdoms Romans 15-4 tells you the things written aforetime was written for our learning...........hebrews 13 - 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today,and forever.

If we accept that the Bible infallibly reflects God's word and it never changes, then how do you explain Jesus giving a different teaching on marriage in the book of Matthew than is given in the old testament?

Based on what you are saying here, we should all be following the laws cited above by Opened Up

* eat fruit from a tree less than five years old. [Lev. 19:23]
* cross-breed animals. [Lev. 19:19]
* grow two different plants in your garden. [Lev. 19:19]
* wear a cotton-polyester blend T-Shirt. [Lev. 19:19]
* read your horoscope. [Lev. 19:26]
* consult a psychic. [Lev. 19:31]
* cut your hair. [Lev. 19:27]
* trim your beard. [Lev. 19:27]
* are tatooed. [Lev. 19:28]
* plant crops for more than seven years. [Lev. 25:4, Ex. 23:10-13]
* bear a grudge. [Lev. 19:17]
* collect interest on a loan. [Ex. 22:24]
* insult a leader. [Ex. 22:27]
* mistreat a foreigner. [Ex. 22:21, 23:9]
* spread false rumors. [Ex. 23:1] (Sorry, Pat Robertson!)

Thus, if you where clothese of two fibers, you are crusading against God, according to your position as stated above.


Now, I believe in the Bible as inspired by God, but I think it is very easy to see that the "Gods word never changes" is overly simplisitic and does not stand up to scrutiny.

[israel]

First of all Christ said because of the hardness of your heart he allowed a man to put away his wife the law did not change that was man lack of understanding when Christ came on the scene he gave the understanding of situations adultery fornication these were some of the reasons that the children of Israel were giving Moses but they started to put away their wives for the smallest reasons abusing the law so Christ came and gave the understanding. Now as far as those laws you mentioned the bible says keep those laws to the best of your ability he didn't do away with any laws Matthew 5-17 to 19 except the law of sacrifice but he called homosexuality and abomination that level of sin God truly hates because that act is a conscious decision to break Gods law you may not be able to wear the same fabric because you don't make your own clothes, but you don't have to sleep with the same sex please reply I can back up all my answers with scripture and understanding.

[OpenedUp]

First of all Christ said because of the hardness of your heart he allowed a man to put away his wife the law did not change that was man lack of understanding when Christ came on the scene he gave the understanding of situations adultery fornication these were some of the reasons that the children of Israel were giving Moses but they started to put away their wives for the smallest reasons abusing the law so Christ came and gave the understanding. Now as far as those laws you mentioned the bible says keep those laws to the best of your ability he didn't do away with any laws Matthew 5-17 to 19 except the law of sacrifice but he called homosexuality and abomination that level of sin God truly hates because that act is a conscious decision to break Gods law you may not be able to wear the same fabric because you don't make your own clothes, but you don't have to sleep with the same sex please reply I can back up all my answers with scripture and understanding.

How about cutting your hair?
Or insulting a leader?

Are those still abominable acts in God's eyes? Are people purposefully sinning against God when they do those things?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 5 Post 47:

at level of sin God truly hates because that act is a conscious decision to break Gods law

The problem we have though is determining whether the Christian God exists, and whether the Christian Bible accurately reflects the wants or wishes of said God.

Is there any way we can determine this? If not, I propose the Bible is nothing more than the ancient thoughts of man, and should be considered along such lines when determining how we wish to treat one another today.

I can back up all my answers with scripture and understanding.

I'm sure you can. Problem here though is that all you can offer is the Bible, and your understanding of it, in order to inform a decision that you can not emperical show is a direct edict from a god. In other words, you have no testable, verifiable, emperical evidence to base an opinion on. All you have is a book written, printed, distributed, and "understood" by humans.

As this all relates to the OP, the "gay crusade" is nothing more than folks seeking to assert their rights in a society so hell-bent on denying them those rights based on a god concept that can't rise beyond the level of myth.

[israel]

its funny when ever someone is told what they are doing wrong according to Gods word which is the Bible and they don't want to repent which means to change they begin to question the validity of the Bible. Romans 3-3 states for what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of god with out effect? Romans 3-4 God forbid: yea let God be true, but every man a liar. basically you don't have to believe its still not gonna stop the effect of the prophecies they will still happen to you and any one else. you must believe in the big bang theory that chaos or a big bang could create life and explosion bring forth water fall plants animals and everything else on earth to every creation there is a creator, to every building there is a builder to every garden there is a Gardner its simple. Blow up something and see what comes from the explosion a big bang come on.For my last point if there is no God can you tell me how you exist the body is the greatest things ever create man has tried to duplicate this by cloning, making computers to try to operate like the brain its amazing what god created your body can heal it self if you get a cut. The sun goes up and down every day do you need more evidence????????????????????????