Journey to Monothesim

[loga]

Guidance and stability was what I was seeking in my search of religion. I have been able to study religions in the University setting, which gave me a secular presentation of all the religions. If all the religions guide to the truth and stability of faith, then there is a God whom one can call upon:

There is nothing like unto Him

God explains to us that “There is nothing like unto Him� (42:11). From this we can understand that nothing of the creation can be compared to God, nor does God resemble the creation.

Christians say that Jesus (upon whom be peace) is God incarnate, a part of the Trinity three-part God – this is often described as being like an egg where there are three parts of one thing. Christians may also say that Muslims believe God can do anything therefore it is possible for God to become a man. However, the Bible confirms for us that this is not the case:

• "Moses replied, "It will be as you say, so that you may know there is no one like the LORD our God." (Exodus 8:10)
• "You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other." (Deuteronomy 4:35)
• "How great you are, O Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears." (2 Samuel 7:22)

With regards to the Trinity, the three-unit God-head is not named in the Bible anywhere. In fact, the Oneness of God is emphasized time and time again. And, that none is to be worshipped except the One God, such as:

• "Before Me there was no god formed, And there will be none after Me." (Isaiah 43:10)
• "Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other." (Deuteronomy 4:39)
• “There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand." (Deuteronomy 32:39)
• "There is no one like you, O LORD, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears." (1 Chronicles 17:20)
• “God is one." (Galatians 3:20)

Further, the Bible relates how God reacts if a person were to worship other than the One God and says: "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." (Exodus 20:5). Taken strictly from a Biblical perspective, God is One and worship ought to be directed to Him alone – not to anything or anyone else.

Say, “He is God, the One. God, to Whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him.� (Quran, 112:1-4)
From the studies I have done while in university, one of the most interesting bits of information researched was the errors found within the Bible. This is interesting because typically people say that the Bible is the word of God, so these errors posed a great theological problem. I would like to share with you some of the evidence and the information I found. I have selected those errors which the Christian scholars themselves say: Yes, this is an error. Here are a few:

1) The age of Ahaziah when he began to rule (second Kings 8:26 – says 22, or 42 in second chronicles 22:2)? Christian scholars say: copyist error.
2) Solomon had how many supervisors? 3300 (1Kings 5:16) or 3600 (2Chonicles 2:2). Christian scholars say: copyist error.
3) Was the daughter of Jairus dead (Matthew 9:18) or alive (Mark 5:23) when she came to Jesus? Christian Scholars say: We don’t know.
4) God tells David the famine will be 3 years (1Chonricles 21:11-12) or 7 years (2Samuel 24:13)? Christian scholars say: copyist error.
5) Who killed Goliath? David (1Samuel 17:50) or Elhanan (2Samuel 21:19)? Answer: copyist error.
6) Charioteers killed by David. 700 (2Samuel 10:18) or 7000 (1Chronicles 19:18)? Christian scholars say: copyist error.
7) David captured 1700 (2Samuel 8:4) or 7000 (1Chonricles 18:4) horsemen? Also: copyist error.
8) 2000 baths (1Kings 7:26) or 3000 (2Chronicles 4:5)? Christian scholars say: copyist error.
9) Michal had five sons (2Samuel 21:8) or none (2Samuel 6:23)? Scholars say: copyist error.
10) Jehoiachin is 8 (2Chronicles 36:9) or 18 (2Kings 24:8) when he becomes King? Christian scholars say: copyist error.
11) Stalls of Solomon, 4000 (2Chonicles 9:25) or 40,000 (1Kings 4:26)? Again: copyist error.
12) Jehoiachin rules Jerusalem for 3 months (2Kings 24:8) or 3 months and ten days (2Chronicles 36:9)? Christian scholars say: copyist error.

At the most basic level of a religion is the source of knowledge, and for Christians this source is the Bible. However, when asked if the Bible is the word of God or not, they might have a difficult time. This is a vital and basic issue that the Christian community can not agree upon. The question is difficult for Christianity because both answers (yes or no) pose great theological problems. Let us examine them briefly:

(1) Yes, the Bible is the word of God. This poses a grave problem because the Bible has many self-contradicting statements within. I have listed just a dozen above, and there are many more.
(2) No, the Bible is not the exact word of God. This poses an even greater problem for the Christians because at this point the Bible becomes very subjective and “truth� is really only in the eyes of whoever is reading; this is because some parts are “inspired� by God while other parts are simply editing mistakes and human errors – who decides what falls into which category is a slippery slope that we don’t want to fall into.

“Guide us to the straight path - The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.� (Quran 1:6-7)

www.loga-abdullah.blogspot.com

[Coyotero]

Hi Coyotero

Ok, so a diety exists but you are not sure if that diety is merely an idea or if it is real? Let's leave aside others and public opinion for now, what do you think?

I believe that the ancient powers that our ancestors looked on as Gods still exist. I do not believe any one tribes God or pantheon to be greater than any other, they simply are as we are.

I believe that most religious doctrine has nothing to do with honoring and venerating the Gods, but rather exists as a method created by man, to control other people. I believe that Gods are living entities with their own distinct personalities, qualities, foibles, and abilities.

I believe that most of them take little interest in the lives of mortal humans, at least on the individual level. A person may attract the prolonged attention of a God in their lifetime, but this is by no means typical.

The Gods and their motives are for the most part, unfathomable. To the Asatruar, we believe that our motives should not be to try to appease them, but rather to try to be like them. Through heroics, honorable actions, and intellectual enlightenment, we can become closer to them, and possibly, like them.

[loga]

Interesting, thanks.

[bernee51]

wa'alaykum.

Do you believe in any kind of moral system?

I observe a system of morals that has evolved with and continues to evolve, along with society.

According to which society and which group? We have humanist manifestos, human rights councils, and lists upon lists of moral systems found within one western society (leaving aside the hundreds upon thousands of societies and cultures around the world), so how do you decide which one is correct or valid?

That which is mindful of the well being of all. Anything that promotes divsion or violence is IMV immoral.

For example I consider the following to be immoral: ABU Bakar Bashir has endorsed the deadly work of wanted terrorist Noordin Top, saying Allah would protect him in his fight for Islam.

Until belief in superstitous nonsense which preaches and glorifies division in society, like the bible or koran, society will suffer under the immoral sociopaths such beliefs have a tendency to breed.

[bernee51]

Hi Coyotero

Ok, so a diety exists but you are not sure if that diety is merely an idea or if it is real? Let's leave aside others and public opinion for now, what do you think?

All gods are nothing more than concepts - human constructs - an attempt to expalin the seemingly unexplainable. The concept of god has evolved as society has evolved.

There is no need or reason for, nor evidence of, any gods.

[loga]

Hi bernee51,

I assume then that you are pacifist in orientation following the more Buddhist ethos of justice. Now, what about when we have people that do horrible things like mass murder or mass rape, do you still suggest complete non-violence to prevent such harm to society?

[loga]

Hi again,

earlier you mentioned you believed in a moral system - where does that get it's basis from? You mentioned evolving with society, so then you'd argue that this moral system is based on the majority belief? What is the foundation of defining right and wrong within your perspective?

[bernee51]

Hi bernee51,

I assume then that you are pacifist in orientation following the more Buddhist ethos of justice. Now, what about when we have people that do horrible things like mass murder or mass rape, do you still suggest complete non-violence to prevent such harm to society?

No

[bernee51]

Hi again,

earlier you mentioned you believed in a moral system - where does that get it's basis from?

What is known as the 'golden rule' is a good place to start.

You mentioned evolving with society, so then you'd argue that this moral system is based on the majority belief?

No it is not based on the majority belief. For example, the abolition of slavery came about due to the beleifs of a minority.

In many matters like this these are those that agree, those that disagree and those that do not even consider it. The Third group is generally by far the largest.

What is the foundation of defining right and wrong within your perspective?

There is no right or wrong in an absolute sense - there are skilful and unskilful actions.

I presume you would hope to act in a particular way which you see as 'right' based on the supposed words of your god as they are written.

If these words were not written, would you act in a different way?

[loga]

I agree with you in many points - the 'golden rule', that majority opinion doesn't equate Truth, and "Right" is not always 100% concrete and situations, context and wisdom allow for appropriate and suitable action.

Regarding your question of "if" I don't really think for me it is valid because you are asking what would be if there was no God, and of course there would be no universe or life without a Creator and as such the question isn't really worth debating.

I think (and I am probably wrong, so correct me) is that what divides our opinion is the foundation. I am saying that a moral system is God given, while you are saying a moral system changes with time and that "Right" isn't something constant but rather it is fluid with the passing of time, people, culture and so forth.

[bernee51]

I agree with you in many points - the 'golden rule', that majority opinion doesn't equate Truth, and "Right" is not always 100% concrete and situations, context and wisdom allow for appropriate and suitable action.

Excellent

Regarding your question of "if" I don't really think for me it is valid because you are asking what would be if there was no God,...

So are you saying that your moral outlook is dependent on your god belIEF?

...and of course there would be no universe or life without a Creator and as such the question isn't really worth debating.

Clearly it is worth debating as it has been debated for 1000's of years.

It is you belief, and only your belief (though other may have similar beliefs) that thre would be no universe or life without a creator.

There is no need or reason for, nor evidence of, a creator.

...
I think (and I am probably wrong, so correct me) is that what divides our opinion is the foundation. I am saying that a moral system is God given, while you are saying a moral system changes with time and that "Right" isn't something constant but rather it is fluid with the passing of time, people, culture and so forth.

You are not wrong - that is exactly what I am saying.

The god concept and a moral sense have common origins - the evolution of self aware consciousness in humankind.

This is an old and famous dilemma but I would be interested in how you would address it in light of you commetn above regarding the foundation of moral systems....is what is moral commanded by god because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by god?