The Qu'ran

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The Qu'ran

Post #1

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CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote:quraan is written by allah but other books written by person so you have to read it to make sure
mar wrote:Well i am sure the quran is much unique from among all the other books. [...] the quran has never been changed. The quran was and is as god says himself in the quran that the quran is copyrighted. So there are millions of copys in the world in many translation--but all the same thing. Ones in english, urdu, arabic, chinese, brail... and so on. So which one shall you read? The one that says Quran or koran or coran on the cover. And as the biggining chapter introduces the author (god). You can order many free ones from islam tomorow, or even better go to your local mosque.[...]

So I went to the quran. I read it and I felt closer to god in my whole life. I actually cryed. And now i am closer to god then ever.
I have been invited to read the Qu'ran. It has been claimed that it has the answers to the questions, How can I know if God exists? and How can I know what God wants of me? It has been implied that the divine truth of the Quran is self-evident.

For Debate: If you have read the Qu'ran or part of it, is its divine origin self-evident? Does it make a convincing argument for the existence of God?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

Apple Pie
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #221

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote: No, I'am sorry, book of revelation is already described as fake, and not acknowledged by christians, and Ive shown it already,
But beside that, you have;nt showed any proof to authenticate the book of revelation.

تنزيل الكتب لا ريب �يه من رب العلمين

Tanzeelu alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena

32.2 The Book of Revelation, no doubt in it, from the Lord of the jinn and of mankind.


If it was certified by the authors of your book of faith, then you have no justification to reject it.



Further you never answered and justify your claim that muslims are illeterate, and that when was the arabic translation of bible done.

Observe these interesting comments by Lane…
Every language without a written literature tends to decay more than to development by reason of foreign influences; and the history of the Arabic exhibits an instance of decay remarkably rapid, and extraordinary in degree. An immediate consequence of the foreign conquests achieved by the Arabs under Mohammad’s first four successors was an extensive corruption of their language; for the nations that they subdued were naturally obliged to adopt in a great measure the speech of the conquerors, a speech which few persons have ever acquired in such a degree as to be secure from the commission of frequent errors in grammar without learning it from infancy….

Such being the case, it became a matter of the highest importance to the Arabs to preserve the knowledge of that speech which had thus become obsolescent, and to draw a distinct line between the classical and the post-classical languages. For the former language was that of the Kur-an and of the Traditions of Mohammad, the sources of their religious, moral, civil, criminal, and political code’ and they possessed, in that language, preserved by oral tradition, - for the art of writing, in Arabia, had been almost exclusively confined to Christians and Jews….

The classical language they called, by reason of its incomparable excellence, “el-loghah,� or “the language:� and the line between this and the post-classical was easily drawn, on account of the almost sudden commencement, and rapid progress, of the corruption.

….I often have found in my knowledge of modern Arabic a solution of a difficulty; but without great caution, such knowledge would frequently have misled me, in consequence of the changes which have taken place in the applications of many words since the classical age.


References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. vii – viii; xxii - xxiii



It is quite inescapable that Islam’s “prophet�….which is not even mentioned in the Koran… did NOT write the Koran…

Moreover…the authors, who did finally put pen to paper, and translated the Hebrew and Greek into Arabic, were more than likely Christians.






Lastly, the translation you showed , is totaly out of subject of Quran, check any translation of any language of world, you will find same translation as its posted. But your translation, is without any authentication, and therefore is not valid at all.
What Arabic words are bothering you...?

TrueReligion
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #222

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: No, I'am sorry, book of revelation is already described as fake, and not acknowledged by christians, and Ive shown it already,
But beside that, you have;nt showed any proof to authenticate the book of revelation.

تنزيل الكتب لا ريب �يه من رب العلمين

Tanzeelu alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena

32.2 The Book of Revelation, no doubt in it, from the Lord of the jinn and of mankind.

Where is mentioned book of revelation here? its not the correct translation:) sorry you failed.
(32:2) This Book, beyond all doubt, was revealed by the Lord of the Universe

Notice the aactual translation, and the attempt of yours to temper the words here and there is obvious,.


If it was certified by the authors of your book of faith, then you have no justification to reject it.



Further you never answered and justify your claim that muslims are illeterate, and that when was the arabic translation of bible done.

Observe these interesting comments by Lane…
Every language without a written literature tends to decay more than to development by reason of foreign influences; and the history of the Arabic exhibits an instance of decay remarkably rapid, and extraordinary in degree. An immediate consequence of the foreign conquests achieved by the Arabs under Mohammad’s first four successors was an extensive corruption of their language; for the nations that they subdued were naturally obliged to adopt in a great measure the speech of the conquerors, a speech which few persons have ever acquired in such a degree as to be secure from the commission of frequent errors in grammar without learning it from infancy….

Such being the case, it became a matter of the highest importance to the Arabs to preserve the knowledge of that speech which had thus become obsolescent, and to draw a distinct line between the classical and the post-classical languages. For the former language was that of the Kur-an and of the Traditions of Mohammad, the sources of their religious, moral, civil, criminal, and political code’ and they possessed, in that language, preserved by oral tradition, - for the art of writing, in Arabia, had been almost exclusively confined to Christians and Jews….

The classical language they called, by reason of its incomparable excellence, “el-loghah,� or “the language:� and the line between this and the post-classical was easily drawn, on account of the almost sudden commencement, and rapid progress, of the corruption.

….I often have found in my knowledge of modern Arabic a solution of a difficulty; but without great caution, such knowledge would frequently have misled me, in consequence of the changes which have taken place in the applications of many words since the classical age.


References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. vii – viii; xxii - xxiii



It is quite inescapable that Islam’s “prophet�….which is not even mentioned in the Koran… did NOT write the Koran…

Moreover…the authors, who did finally put pen to paper, and translated the Hebrew and Greek into Arabic, were more than likely Christians.

You are relying on 1 person's ideas and translations. who is not native arabic as well:) it can;t be authenticated, and therefore is not valid.
Your other argument that Muhammmad didnt wrote the Quran, and christians did, looks very illogical and funny , as why christians were not there in Mecca at the time Quran was revealed. and no history of church was also found in Mecca or any scripture of this kind was available that time.







Lastly, the translation you showed , is totaly out of subject of Quran, check any translation of any language of world, you will find same translation as its posted. But your translation, is without any authentication, and therefore is not valid at all.
What Arabic words are bothering you...?
All your arabic words are changed, and derived from wrong source, your source is not valid, as well as does;nt reflect pure arabic source.

Apple Pie
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #223

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: No, I'am sorry, book of revelation is already described as fake, and not acknowledged by christians, and Ive shown it already,
But beside that, you have;nt showed any proof to authenticate the book of revelation.

تنزيل الكتب لا ريب �يه من رب العلمين

Tanzeelu alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena

32.2 The Book of Revelation, no doubt in it, from the Lord of the jinn and of mankind.

Where is mentioned book of revelation here? its not the correct translation:) sorry you failed.
(32:2) This Book, beyond all doubt, was revealed by the Lord of the Universe

Notice the aactual translation, and the attempt of yours to temper the words here and there is obvious,.


If it was certified by the authors of your book of faith, then you have no justification to reject it.



Further you never answered and justify your claim that muslims are illeterate, and that when was the arabic translation of bible done.

Observe these interesting comments by Lane…
Every language without a written literature tends to decay more than to development by reason of foreign influences; and the history of the Arabic exhibits an instance of decay remarkably rapid, and extraordinary in degree. An immediate consequence of the foreign conquests achieved by the Arabs under Mohammad’s first four successors was an extensive corruption of their language; for the nations that they subdued were naturally obliged to adopt in a great measure the speech of the conquerors, a speech which few persons have ever acquired in such a degree as to be secure from the commission of frequent errors in grammar without learning it from infancy….

Such being the case, it became a matter of the highest importance to the Arabs to preserve the knowledge of that speech which had thus become obsolescent, and to draw a distinct line between the classical and the post-classical languages. For the former language was that of the Kur-an and of the Traditions of Mohammad, the sources of their religious, moral, civil, criminal, and political code’ and they possessed, in that language, preserved by oral tradition, - for the art of writing, in Arabia, had been almost exclusively confined to Christians and Jews….

The classical language they called, by reason of its incomparable excellence, “el-loghah,� or “the language:� and the line between this and the post-classical was easily drawn, on account of the almost sudden commencement, and rapid progress, of the corruption.

….I often have found in my knowledge of modern Arabic a solution of a difficulty; but without great caution, such knowledge would frequently have misled me, in consequence of the changes which have taken place in the applications of many words since the classical age.


References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. vii – viii; xxii - xxiii



It is quite inescapable that Islam’s “prophet�….which is not even mentioned in the Koran… did NOT write the Koran…

Moreover…the authors, who did finally put pen to paper, and translated the Hebrew and Greek into Arabic, were more than likely Christians.

You are relying on 1 person's ideas and translations. who is not native arabic as well:) it can;t be authenticated, and therefore is not valid.
Your other argument that Muhammmad didnt wrote the Quran, and christians did, looks very illogical and funny , as why christians were not there in Mecca at the time Quran was revealed. and no history of church was also found in Mecca or any scripture of this kind was available that time.







Lastly, the translation you showed , is totaly out of subject of Quran, check any translation of any language of world, you will find same translation as its posted. But your translation, is without any authentication, and therefore is not valid at all.
What Arabic words are bothering you...?
All your arabic words are changed, and derived from wrong source, your source is not valid, as well as does;nt reflect pure arabic source.
Classic Arabic is what your book of faith was penned in, brother.

Not English.

TrueReligion
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #224

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: No, I'am sorry, book of revelation is already described as fake, and not acknowledged by christians, and Ive shown it already,
But beside that, you have;nt showed any proof to authenticate the book of revelation.

تنزيل الكتب لا ريب �يه من رب العلمين

Tanzeelu alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena

32.2 The Book of Revelation, no doubt in it, from the Lord of the jinn and of mankind.

Where is mentioned book of revelation here? its not the correct translation:) sorry you failed.
(32:2) This Book, beyond all doubt, was revealed by the Lord of the Universe

Notice the aactual translation, and the attempt of yours to temper the words here and there is obvious,.


If it was certified by the authors of your book of faith, then you have no justification to reject it.



Further you never answered and justify your claim that muslims are illeterate, and that when was the arabic translation of bible done.

Observe these interesting comments by Lane…
Every language without a written literature tends to decay more than to development by reason of foreign influences; and the history of the Arabic exhibits an instance of decay remarkably rapid, and extraordinary in degree. An immediate consequence of the foreign conquests achieved by the Arabs under Mohammad’s first four successors was an extensive corruption of their language; for the nations that they subdued were naturally obliged to adopt in a great measure the speech of the conquerors, a speech which few persons have ever acquired in such a degree as to be secure from the commission of frequent errors in grammar without learning it from infancy….

Such being the case, it became a matter of the highest importance to the Arabs to preserve the knowledge of that speech which had thus become obsolescent, and to draw a distinct line between the classical and the post-classical languages. For the former language was that of the Kur-an and of the Traditions of Mohammad, the sources of their religious, moral, civil, criminal, and political code’ and they possessed, in that language, preserved by oral tradition, - for the art of writing, in Arabia, had been almost exclusively confined to Christians and Jews….

The classical language they called, by reason of its incomparable excellence, “el-loghah,� or “the language:� and the line between this and the post-classical was easily drawn, on account of the almost sudden commencement, and rapid progress, of the corruption.

….I often have found in my knowledge of modern Arabic a solution of a difficulty; but without great caution, such knowledge would frequently have misled me, in consequence of the changes which have taken place in the applications of many words since the classical age.


References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. vii – viii; xxii - xxiii



It is quite inescapable that Islam’s “prophet�….which is not even mentioned in the Koran… did NOT write the Koran…

Moreover…the authors, who did finally put pen to paper, and translated the Hebrew and Greek into Arabic, were more than likely Christians.

You are relying on 1 person's ideas and translations. who is not native arabic as well:) it can;t be authenticated, and therefore is not valid.
Your other argument that Muhammmad didnt wrote the Quran, and christians did, looks very illogical and funny , as why christians were not there in Mecca at the time Quran was revealed. and no history of church was also found in Mecca or any scripture of this kind was available that time.







Lastly, the translation you showed , is totaly out of subject of Quran, check any translation of any language of world, you will find same translation as its posted. But your translation, is without any authentication, and therefore is not valid at all.
What Arabic words are bothering you...?
All your arabic words are changed, and derived from wrong source, your source is not valid, as well as does;nt reflect pure arabic source.
Classic Arabic is what your book of faith was penned in, brother.

Not English.
Who said Quran was writen in english?

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #225

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote: Who said Quran was writen in english?
What language was it first written in, when it was copied from the Holy Bible, brother?

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #226

Post by Goat »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Who said Quran was writen in english?
What language was it first written in, when it was copied from the Holy Bible, brother?
I have yet to see you present anything beyond hubris and the use of some common words and imagry that are cultural in context that it was 'copied from the bible'.

That is an error you are making. You are assuming that since a phrase is used in a specific manner in the bible, it is universally applied to Jesus.

That isn't so.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #227

Post by Apple Pie »

goat wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Who said Quran was writen in english?
What language was it first written in, when it was copied from the Holy Bible, brother?
I have yet to see you present anything beyond hubris and the use of some common words and imagry that are cultural in context that it was 'copied from the bible'.

That is an error you are making. You are assuming that since a phrase is used in a specific manner in the bible, it is universally applied to Jesus.

That isn't so.
Show us...

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #228

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Who said Quran was writen in english?
What language was it first written in, when it was copied from the Holy Bible, brother?
It was never copied from Bible,
Fact is, Bible is copied from Jewish scriptues.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #229

Post by Goat »

TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Who said Quran was writen in english?
What language was it first written in, when it was copied from the Holy Bible, brother?
It was never copied from Bible,
Fact is, Bible is copied from Jewish scriptues.
Well, partly correct. The New Testament used some Jewish Scripture.

What is called the Old Testament is a variation of the Jewish scriptures.

And of course, much of the Torah was a modification of even older religious writings from the Sumaratians and the pheoncians.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #230

Post by micatala »

Moderator Intervention

Apple Pie wrote:
goat wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Who said Quran was writen in english?
What language was it first written in, when it was copied from the Holy Bible, brother?
I have yet to see you present anything beyond hubris and the use of some common words and imagry that are cultural in context that it was 'copied from the bible'.

That is an error you are making. You are assuming that since a phrase is used in a specific manner in the bible, it is universally applied to Jesus.

That isn't so.
Show us...

I will ask Apple Pie to be aware that unproductive one liners are against the rules. If you have a specific challenge, make it. Simply responding "show us", especially repeatedly, is not really debate.
" . . . the line separating good and evil passes, not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart . . . ." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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