As a former Christian (I still believe in a higher power, just not the Christian God), and one of the few supporters of the religion that I know of that isn't also a member of the faith, I have to wonder why certain believers in God are so stubborn about the separation of God and science. This is going to be long, by the way, and I'll try to summarize at the bottom.
Accepted Christian doctrine is that God created everything in the universe, and everything in the universe works because God designed it that way. Why then, is it so hard for people to swallow the idea that God might not have also created the fundamental laws of science as well? God (to them) makes gravity work, makes aerodynamics work, makes the laws of thermodynamics work, and the order and laws of ecology work as well. Why is it so hard to give any credence to the idea that God also used evolution in part of His great design? If it is observable in the universe, it is part of God's plan SOMEHOW, so why try to deny God His works? Not to mention the concept of God's view of time being in a much larger perspective than Man's (a thousand years are but a blink of an eye to Him, and such). Who is to say that the 7 days mentioned in Genesis are relative to the massive perspective of God? That would probably put creation somewhere on the order of millions of years, wouldn't it?
Let's take a step back, and consider a fundamental axiom that a lot of Christians (NOT ALL!!!!!) seem to accept without even knowing that they believe in it: Some Christians believe that by reading the Bible, they have a complete understanding of the workings and mind of God, and that all God ever wanted us to know, is contained in that book. Well, if that's the case, I certainly hope that they don't fly planes, or drive cars, or use electricity. These things were unknown to man at the time of the writings of the Bible, and if we were to attempt to go back in time to explain or demonstrate these things, we would be incomprehensible at best, killed for being possessed at worst.
God didn't tell us the whole story all at once, because (in my opinion) God was smart enough to know that we weren't smart enough at the time to understand the entirety of the world around us. There's no mention of the Earth being round, or internal combustion, or electricity in the Bible, and yet here we are, with cars, lights, and a round Earth. These things, because they are not written explicitly in the Bible, are a heresy by skewed logic. The arrogance of some of these 'believers' is truly astounding; to think that they can understand the entirety of God's mind is staggeringly arrogant, especially considering their beliefs on the matter.
As a final sticking point, I think it's laughable for some (NOT ALL!!!!!) Christians to say certain realms of science are 'forbidden knowledge' or 'God's domain, and not to be tampered with.' Don't they have enough faith in God's omnipotence to think that if He didn't want us learning or doing something THAT critical, that He simply would make it impossible to practice or understand? The Bible implores us to strive, in all things, to be more like God, and to walk in His footsteps, to strive to emulate Him. Why do they think this is limited to faith and morals alone? Christians believe that we are God's special creations. Why would He limit us in our yearning to be like Him, and to fully know His works?
Taking Christian understanding to it's logical conclusion, the ONLY reason we can understand or comprehend ANYTHING, is because God WANTS us to. If He didn't, we simply would find something impossible to ever understand. If genetics was a forbidden area, we simply wouldn't be able to manipulate genes, or even see how it worked; God would have made it impossible.
And for some Christians to think that we are becoming so great and powerful that we are actually encroaching on God's sacred mysteries AGAINST HIS WILL, is arrogant in the extreme, reducing their Creator to a mere stepping stone, of which we stand on His shoulders to reach new heights.
The Christian God wants us to be happy, to be loving, to be moral, and to learn more about the wonders of this vast universe that God (in the Christian sense; I believe differently) created JUST FOR US. Those Christians that deny progress in that direction seem, to me, to be trying to work against God's great plan.
Unless, of course, I'm mistaken.
What are your thoughts?
Unifying Scientific Progress and Christianity: Thoughts?
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Post #3
Simple really.
Science quite clearly shows us that this world and this universe is perfectly logical and perfectly viable if you take God out of the equation. Our own observation has shown that it is VERY likely that the universe came into existence WITHOUT any god whatsoever. Throughout history science has been peeling away the God-myth. People who are religious know this. They know that science goes against their fundamental ideas, so instead of trying to rationally read up on the theories to find out if there is a possibility that "God still did it" they rather turn away and ignore most of the scientific theories altogether. It's easier to say "Evolution is just wrong!" than it is to read up on it and find a way to sneak your god in.
Science quite clearly shows us that this world and this universe is perfectly logical and perfectly viable if you take God out of the equation. Our own observation has shown that it is VERY likely that the universe came into existence WITHOUT any god whatsoever. Throughout history science has been peeling away the God-myth. People who are religious know this. They know that science goes against their fundamental ideas, so instead of trying to rationally read up on the theories to find out if there is a possibility that "God still did it" they rather turn away and ignore most of the scientific theories altogether. It's easier to say "Evolution is just wrong!" than it is to read up on it and find a way to sneak your god in.
Post #4
religion was invented (in my opinion) to explain things that science now explains in a much better way. Because of this they are completely contradictory and trying to overlay religion onto scientific theories is just an attempt to hide this. If God created the laws of physics why isn't it in the bible? (obviously because it was written by humans trying to explain the universe's existence as best as they can, at the time).
Science relies on evidence, religion does not... the two shouldn't be mixed.
Science relies on evidence, religion does not... the two shouldn't be mixed.
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AlexMapleoir
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Post #5
Science and Religion are rather conflicted to join together. Just the ways they find theories to believe in can make the two sides often angry, when Science searches for a definition by the scientific method and research, and religion finds their answer by their own agreeing feelings about divinity.
Science also tends to have more flexibility in changing.
I could however see beliefs about universal forces and open-minded, more individualistic thinkers about polytheistic forces being better about organization.
Id say that Christianity in its current majority form just couldnt. Its way to set on "JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY!" "I HAVE THE TRUE PATH!" to be compatible. Its not that all Christians are like that, its just that sadly a lot of them are.
Science also tends to have more flexibility in changing.
I could however see beliefs about universal forces and open-minded, more individualistic thinkers about polytheistic forces being better about organization.
Id say that Christianity in its current majority form just couldnt. Its way to set on "JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY!" "I HAVE THE TRUE PATH!" to be compatible. Its not that all Christians are like that, its just that sadly a lot of them are.
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The Mad Haranguer
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Post #6
Interesting OP. It is very much like something I could have written.
Science explains order in the physical universe only by showing that it comes from a deeper, grander and more profound order; it has penetrated so far into the nature of physical reality that it can see a harmony that is in conformity with sublime reason. Oddly, this once counted as evidence for design but is now considered by many to be evidence against design.
The East was culturally sophisticated when the West was still in the throes of barbarism. The West quickly eclipsed the East in science and technology probably because unlike the East it came to assume a rational designer. People forget that the first "scientists" were deeply religious and believed that to know the ways of the physical universe was to know the mind of God.
Science explains order in the physical universe only by showing that it comes from a deeper, grander and more profound order; it has penetrated so far into the nature of physical reality that it can see a harmony that is in conformity with sublime reason. Oddly, this once counted as evidence for design but is now considered by many to be evidence against design.
The East was culturally sophisticated when the West was still in the throes of barbarism. The West quickly eclipsed the East in science and technology probably because unlike the East it came to assume a rational designer. People forget that the first "scientists" were deeply religious and believed that to know the ways of the physical universe was to know the mind of God.
