A new documentary released today

[sickles]

http://www.youtube.com/user/TZMOfficial ... Z9WVZddH9w

Zeitgeist 3 just realeased early this morning. A documentary by Peter Joseph.

The documentary posits quite a few interesting things buy im more interested in the economic acts 2 and 3.

Questions for debate:


1. Is it possible for 6 billion people to exist without a money system.

2. Are there any alternatives to the venus project that also meet the sustainability requirement for a future society?

[Jester]

Moderator Comment

Bobroonie,
Please be sure to watch the language, profanity is against the rules.

[sickles]

wow. alot of replies. I thought this thread was dead. ok ill respond to everyone in turn.

[sickles]

I'm not watching the video. Our societies have developed and evolved monetary systems for a good reason. I cannot perceive how a large scale society could work without one. If it were abolished today, we would re-invent it.

how arrogant to assume what can and cannot be done. Human thought is imperfect and I would even call it seriously flawed. You cannot imagine it because you cannot think in that way. And you cannot think that way because you have made up your mind already. I am sorry you are unable to percieve the past. Large groups of people have lived together in one place and been successfull. Even happy, I would say. Egalitarian societies bro. I could not imagine a world without barter. I can imagine a world where you cant make money with money (interest).

"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe." - Einstein

[sickles]

I read some of their writings on the Venus Project and it is all a great and wonderful idea on paper that will never succeed in reality. Ever. They are appealing to a side of humanity that is not universal and a resource based society would fail. Greed will prevail.

You assume that greed is an innate quality for human beings. What facts do you look at to make that assumption?

[sickles]

I would like the Venus Project to do a small scale demonstration of what they are talking about before I could take them seriously. When they do that I will look at it, until then I will ignore them, and spend my time instead finding plans to make the world a better place to live that could actually work.

I would point you towards books such as

Ishmael
Tales of Adam
A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle
Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach
Fighting for our lives: An anarchist primer
Free Trade is a contradiction by Crimethinc.com
Hunter Gather by Crimethinc.com


There are many ideas besides the venus project. The vunus project requires a intrinsicaly valuable natural resource. Until they acquire that , they have nothing.

[sickles]

I would like the Venus Project to do a small scale demonstration of what they are talking about before I could take them seriously. When they do that I will look at it, until then I will ignore them, and spend my time instead finding plans to make the world a better place to live that could actually work.

Even then I would not trust them. Of course you could hand select some people and make it work. They make claims like, there will be no prisons because everyone will be happy and content. That would not fly with a large population. Someone is going to break the rules and then what? And who decides who does what? Just because all my needs are provided for I will not be happy cleaning bathrooms for the rest of my natural life...

/sigh

If someone breaks the rules, i would suggest pain or labor. A lash works wonders to change someones mind, and it doesnt maim. If something psychological is the issue, that can be worked upon or the person locked away. The point is that the system greatly reduces crime because it eliminates the cause of most crime. Greed (no money needed,) and psychological damage from the environment (toxins, parental and even grand parent stress levels -see epigenetics-, malnutrition, and poverty) cause the vast majority of crime, especially violent crime. You eliminate those two pressures from peoples lives and childhoods and you create a different kind of person. A kind of person that is less concerned about taking advantage of others, or subjugating themselves to labor, and they are more concerned about improving themselves and thier family. Again, I point out the lack of running on a hamster wheel.

[sickles]

Possible not probable.


I liked the movie it had a good outlook on environment and economics.

As much as we would all love to live in one big happy hippie Utopia, it's not a realistic goal of this world any time soon. We live in a world with little to no empathy. If you can't afford to eat you'll die in the street, then get robbed, stepped over, then somebody might call an ambulance, if they trip over you and get hurt. Hell you might even get sued!

As far fetched as that sounds, that's pretty much reality. Nobody gives a *** any more. The U.S government gave away 11,000,000,000,000.00$ to a group of business men that ran their business into the ground by *** Americans. I'm sure someone could have found a more "humanitarian" way to economically and efficiently help 100's of millions of people and the economy, not reward the people that *** us over.

Yes, indeed. Things as they are now are not sustainable. There will not be time to change everyones mind. Hopefully there will be a small group of people somewhere saying "what was that noise?" when the system breaks. It literally is a case of chang or die. Most people continue to argue for die. I find this appalling.