Does God mind cussin'?

[Slopeshoulder]

Well Otseng does, so I can't use any examples!

But in another thread DeMaria wrote:

People can acquire holy habits or sinful habits. They can have holy rituals or sinful rituals. Just ask anyone can vouch who has fought the habit of a foul mouth by establishing the habit of speaking only that which is pleasing unto God. It is not easy, but it is worthwhile to do so.

I took that out of context as a side comment in a longer post having to do with catholic doctrine with which I had no specific quarrel. But this raises an issue:

Assuming god exists and god doesn't like hate speech, lying, disrespect to others, or false oaths (especially those that invoke his name), using language to do violence or de-create the good creation, does he really mind "dirty words"? Do they count as a "foul mouth"?
I tend to think that these words are arbitrary products of a puritan heritage and victorian bourgeois sensibility, having nothing to do with religion except as mistaken expressions of radical anti-body dualism, and that actually God smiles upon the honesty and passion associated with their use. So to praise God's integrity honesty and passion, I tend to use 'em all the time. I suspect it must please him, or that he doesn't care. So I'm at it every 5 minutes. I make no distinction, and feel that equating ceasing to use these words with some sort of spiritual progress is rather off the mark. I only stop for a few minutes if it's my self interest to do so in a particular social or professional context, temporarily ceding power to the dominant puritan-victorian narrative in these circumstances. Or sometimes if my love of language leads me to find a better way to express the thought and emotion I have in any given moment. God hates sin, but potty doesn't matter so much. It can be honest, accurate, and even poetic.

What is it with all this anti-potty crap? Is this still relevant? Or is it just part of an accidental puritan and victorian cultural heritage that obscures the real issue? Or gee golly willickers should I just shut the...H-E-double toothpicks up ? Dang it all, am I just talking bullroar here?

What say you?

[sarabellum]

I think "the swearing" has its place...

It is a wonderful way to express to the "viewer" that you are getting angry...
And that if they continue with what they are doing that you will mostly likely end up chocking them...
It seems to be more effective than just saying that you are making me angry...
Sometimes people take a bit of persuading...
(A clear cut, "get the F away from me" just might clarify...)

If a picture can paint a thousand words then an F-bomb can paint a thousand pictures....

All things in moderation I guess...
(unless you smash your thumb, then just let her rip!)

God's not a prude when it comes to the swearing...
He gets it...
(I hope)

Edited cause I forgot the f'n S....

[Sneezing_Cat]

Assuming you're talking about a god created by the Bible...

Ephesians 4:29 - "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."

Ephesians 5:4 - "Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving."

James 3:8-10 ESV - "But no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so."

Colossians 3:8 - "But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth."

Looks to me like he doesn't allow it.

[james.hoggatt]

Assuming you're talking about a god created by the Bible...

Ephesians 4:29 - "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."

Ephesians 5:4 - "Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving."

James 3:8-10 ESV - "But no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so."

Colossians 3:8 - "But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth."

Looks to me like he doesn't allow it.

I hope this isn't against policy since its treating it as a word and not directed at someone:

Terms like Fuck or Shit are not criticized by the passages that you cite. Corruption in Biblical terms usually means something that would lead a person away from a relationship with the temple or god. For instance, telling someone that the OT God prefers fruit to meat as a sacrifice, when it isn't true.

Crude talking refers to sexual jesting, so dropping a hammer on your toe and screaming "fuck" does not have the nature of it being crude. While saying, "I fucked a girl at that frat party and it rocked" would, but not because of the word fuck but because of the definition used at that point. For instance, "I had sexual intercourse at that frat party and it rocked" would have the same reprisal. Thus it is not the term used, but the subject. This applies to obscene talk as well.

In regards to putting those things away, things like "I just took a shit", or "What the fuck?" as a humorous question would not meet the mandate to be punished.

In the end, 'cussin' is a semantic thing, and has nothing to do with biblical reprisal.

What matters is the intent behind the word and not the word itself, so no, there is nothing against it.

[dianaiad]

Assuming you're talking about a god created by the Bible...

Ephesians 4:29 - "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."

Ephesians 5:4 - "Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving."

James 3:8-10 ESV - "But no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so."

Colossians 3:8 - "But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth."

Looks to me like he doesn't allow it.

I hope this isn't against policy since its treating it as a word and not directed at someone:

..

OK, I had to delete the majority of your post, because, well....I just had to. Call me a puritan, a prude...whatever you want to, but there is a word that you overworked there that until I was 58 years old, I had never said or written. I both said, and wrote it, at that time because I was teaching 14 year old gang bangers who were, quite literally, making 'shanks' out of my ball point pens, shoving meth in the binders of their books, and used that word in the place of every adjective the English language holds. It was not, mind you, "we're having a dance during lunch hour and the principal is letting us rap...but we have to be careful of the lyrics." it was "we're having a F'n dance at F'n lunch, and the F' F'er Principal is F'n letting us 'F'n rap, but we can't use no 'F'n' F' words. "F*** it."

I got tired one day and taught them an entire lesson in their vernacular. First and last time I ever used the word, and though it did the job (they all tried really hard NOT to use it around me) I have always felt like I lost something precious that day.

NOT, mind you, that I am all that mealy mouthed; I am, after all, a southern Idaho Mormon. Anybody who knows about J. Golden Kimball understands what I mean there.

However, it occurred to me that what God doesn't like is having His Name taken in vain...to swear falsely. So, exclaiming 'by G-d" this, and OMG that...that is precisely what you are doing; swearing by God...and taking that very lightly indeed. As for the F word...consider what it MEANS, and what, and who, it debases. It is for THAT reason I hate it.

As well, I think that, when one uses that sort of language for everyday expressions, where is there left to go when you REALLY need to express extreme emotion? There's nothing left! Whereas, if you never swear, never say 'sh*t," or "Damn," then, when you DO....

People take notice.

It MEANS something, then.

For instance, I have always imagined (or rather, hoped) that my last words, said in the middle of doing something exciting and interesting, would be "oh, shit!"

If I have worn the words out before then, what would be especially expressive about using them then?

Just a thought....

[james.hoggatt]

Assuming you're talking about a god created by the Bible...

Ephesians 4:29 - "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."

Ephesians 5:4 - "Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving."

James 3:8-10 ESV - "But no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so."

Colossians 3:8 - "But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth."

Looks to me like he doesn't allow it.

I hope this isn't against policy since its treating it as a word and not directed at someone:

..

OK, I had to delete the majority of your post, because, well....I just had to. Call me a puritan, a prude...whatever you want to, but there is a word that you overworked there that until I was 58 years old, I had never said or written. I both said, and wrote it, at that time because I was teaching 14 year old gang bangers who were, quite literally, making 'shanks' out of my ball point pens, shoving meth in the binders of their books, and used that word in the place of every adjective the English language holds. It was not, mind you, "we're having a dance during lunch hour and the principal is letting us rap...but we have to be careful of the lyrics." it was "we're having a F'n dance at F'n lunch, and the F' F'er Principal is F'n letting us 'F'n rap, but we can't use no 'F'n' F' words. "F*** it."

I got tired one day and taught them an entire lesson in their vernacular. First and last time I ever used the word, and though it did the job (they all tried really hard NOT to use it around me) I have always felt like I lost something precious that day.

NOT, mind you, that I am all that mealy mouthed; I am, after all, a southern Idaho Mormon. Anybody who knows about J. Golden Kimball understands what I mean there.

However, it occurred to me that what God doesn't like is having His Name taken in vain...to swear falsely. So, exclaiming 'by G-d" this, and OMG that...that is precisely what you are doing; swearing by God...and taking that very lightly indeed. As for the F word...consider what it MEANS, and what, and who, it debases. It is for THAT reason I hate it.

As well, I think that, when one uses that sort of language for everyday expressions, where is there left to go when you REALLY need to express extreme emotion? There's nothing left! Whereas, if you never swear, never say 'sh*t," or "Damn," then, when you DO....

People take notice.

It MEANS something, then.

For instance, I have always imagined (or rather, hoped) that my last words, said in the middle of doing something exciting and interesting, would be "oh, shit!"

If I have worn the words out before then, what would be especially expressive about using them then?

Just a thought....

I coach speech and debate and will use several of those words occasionally as a mode of humor. They only have power when you give them power. They are combinations of letters and nothing more.

[dianaiad]

I coach speech and debate and will use several of those words occasionally as a mode of humor. They only have power when you give them power. They are combinations of letters and nothing more.

True...but familiarity breeds contempt; overusing those words BECOME nothing more than combinations of letters, and lose their ability to shock, or imbue humor. Overuse simply promotes a lazy vocabulary. Again, if you use those words too much, for minor things, where is there left to go when you really want to make an impression?

This isn't a criticism of the morality and propriety of their use, but simply a comment upon utility and effectiveness. It's a little like perfume; a little goes a very long way.

I think Shakespeare had it: "It comes to pass oft that a terrible oath, with a swaggering accent sharply twanged off, gives manhood more approbation than ever proof itself would have earned him."

I personally prefer the proof.

[james.hoggatt]

I coach speech and debate and will use several of those words occasionally as a mode of humor. They only have power when you give them power. They are combinations of letters and nothing more.

True...but familiarity breeds contempt; overusing those words BECOME nothing more than combinations of letters, and lose their ability to shock, or imbue humor. Overuse simply promotes a lazy vocabulary. Again, if you use those words too much, for minor things, where is there left to go when you really want to make an impression?

This isn't a criticism of the morality and propriety of their use, but simply a comment upon utility and effectiveness. It's a little like perfume; a little goes a very long way.

I think Shakespeare had it: "It comes to pass oft that a terrible oath, with a swaggering accent sharply twanged off, gives manhood more approbation than ever proof itself would have earned him."

I personally prefer the proof.

Languages change and evolve, new curses and swears are developed. There are still unique words that aren't used often today that still pack a punch. I haven't seen these words devalued for their acidity.

[dianaiad]

I coach speech and debate and will use several of those words occasionally as a mode of humor. They only have power when you give them power. They are combinations of letters and nothing more.

True...but familiarity breeds contempt; overusing those words BECOME nothing more than combinations of letters, and lose their ability to shock, or imbue humor. Overuse simply promotes a lazy vocabulary. Again, if you use those words too much, for minor things, where is there left to go when you really want to make an impression?

This isn't a criticism of the morality and propriety of their use, but simply a comment upon utility and effectiveness. It's a little like perfume; a little goes a very long way.

I think Shakespeare had it: "It comes to pass oft that a terrible oath, with a swaggering accent sharply twanged off, gives manhood more approbation than ever proof itself would have earned him."

I personally prefer the proof.

Languages change and evolve, new curses and swears are developed. There are still unique words that aren't used often today that still pack a punch. I haven't seen these words devalued for their acidity.

..probably because they aren't much used.

The value of a good swear word, (or a good joke) is that it is NOT common; it calls attention; it says 'here is something unusual, odd, humorous, unique...uniquely irritating/awful/painful....

It is not so much that I am preaching against swear words for their immorality or classlessness: quite the opposite! There are times when a truly good swear word is not only the best expression, but the only true one. Because of this, I think that they should be kept in one's mental safe, to be exposed only when truly appropriate, so that when they ARE used properly, their effectiveness has not been blunted by over-familiarity.

[dacheesdog]

I had a little discussion about this with a friend back a few months ago, and while we disagreed, I did sharpen my understanding of the subject from it.

I believe that swearing, cussing, or whatever you want to call it, with malicious thought towards someone is wrong. It isn't necessarily the words you are using, it is the meaning behind whatever utterance we make and who it is aimed at.

You also have to take into account who your target is. If I say some ridiculous stuff to someone I don't know, I would absolutely label that "wrong", but if I directed it at my best friend in the middle of playing a competitive game, he would laugh it off or throw a retort.

Now, if you are walking through your house at night and you stub your toe and drop your 4-letter word of choice, that is just venting frustration. Cussing, for most of us I would imagine, is reserved for more severe instances such as sudden pain, fear or intense frustration (I am thinking of an old car I used to have...). If we are to say that letting something drop at those times is wrong, then we could just as easily say that grunting or waving a fist in the air is just as bad. The only reason to say it is wrong to use the roster of 4-letter words in these types of situations is because social conditioning has lead us to believe that any use of these words is wrong. Period.

IMHO, used in moments of frustration, fear, pain, etc. is exactly the same thing as saying holy cow or just grunting loudly. Cussing at someone and wishing some kind of ill will, on the other hand, is wrong.