If you had the ability to predict the future, whether via time travel, calculating all of the variables (like metereologists do to predict weather), or posessing foreknowledge, would you take out Hitler at his infantile age?
In other words, if you knew that Hitler would kill before he killed and he would not change his mind from this, would it be moral to take him out before he killed?
If God took out baby Hitler...
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Re: If God took out baby Hitler...
Post #2Before I answer, I should state that I would require absolute certainty. Either through being all-knowing and 100% certain that the future would occur (with significant backup so that I can be sure I am not just insane), or because I have traveled to the past from the future (and likewise have confirmation that I can change the past, and am not crazy).Angel wrote:If you had the ability to predict the future, whether via time travel, calculating all of the variables (like metereologists do to predict weather), or posessing foreknowledge, would you take out Hitler at his infantile age?
In other words, if you knew that Hitler would kill before he killed and he would not change his mind from this, would it be moral to take him out before he killed?
If there was no other options, and my grand powers of foreknowledge also informed me that killing Hitler would actually make a difference (and horrible events would be prevented), then I would indeed kill baby Hitler. Whenever one human life is measured against millions of human lives, the rational decision is easy, even if the guilt of such an action could consume most empathic and altruistic human beings (like me).
The preferred solution would just be to prevent the horrible ends without having to commit such an evil action. Like removing baby Hitler without killing him or helping to raise him differently.
I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. - Mark Twain
Post #3
Nope. If naby Hitler has free will, then there is no way to predict his future actions with absolute certainty. If baby Hitler has no chance of making any choices other than those that are predestined for him, then nothing he does is really his fault.
Post #4
Free will is a nebulous concept at best. The OP presupposes that you know with certainty what will transpire, but will have the ability to change the outcomes. So assume instead of the future as a fixed line you see all alternate potential futures based on 'free will'. Whether or not it is his 'fault' is not important. You have the ability to intercede. Choose to spare a baby in order to potentially doom millions (although that is arguable), I believe, is the point of this exercise.Paradigm wrote:Nope. If naby Hitler has free will, then there is no way to predict his future actions with absolute certainty. If baby Hitler has no chance of making any choices other than those that are predestined for him, then nothing he does is really his fault.
If I believed with absolute certainty, that I was destined to be the direct personal cause of the deaths of millions, I would kill myself. There are probably only a few people I would not intellectually choose to murder in the name of so many lives. Actually *doing* the act, is a different story, and impossible to say for certain. Either way it played out, I would be horribly wracked with guilt.
I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. - Mark Twain
Post #5
If people are just preprogrammed robots, then I see no reason to place value on them being programmed to be alive over them being programmed to be dead. If my actions are similarly preprogrammed, I can't choose to act or not act anyway, so I may as well just wait and see what happens.Deadclown wrote:Free will is a nebulous concept at best. The OP presupposes that you know with certainty what will transpire, but will have the ability to change the outcomes. So assume instead of the future as a fixed line you see all alternate potential futures based on 'free will'. Whether or not it is his 'fault' is not important. You have the ability to intercede. Choose to spare a baby in order to potentially doom millions (although that is arguable), I believe, is the point of this exercise.Paradigm wrote:Nope. If naby Hitler has free will, then there is no way to predict his future actions with absolute certainty. If baby Hitler has no chance of making any choices other than those that are predestined for him, then nothing he does is really his fault.
If I believed with absolute certainty, that I was destined to be the direct personal cause of the deaths of millions, I would kill myself. There are probably only a few people I would not intellectually choose to murder in the name of so many lives. Actually *doing* the act, is a different story, and impossible to say for certain. Either way it played out, I would be horribly wracked with guilt.
Post #6
You are entitled to your odd opinion. However, you completely miss the point of the exercise.Paradigm wrote: If people are just preprogrammed robots, then I see no reason to place value on them being programmed to be alive over them being programmed to be dead. If my actions are similarly preprogrammed, I can't choose to act or not act anyway, so I may as well just wait and see what happens.
I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. - Mark Twain
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Strider324
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Post #7
The thread title does not match the question asked.
If God took out Hitler is an entirely different subject than if I did, and has a different answer.
Which question are you really interested in asking?
If God took out Hitler is an entirely different subject than if I did, and has a different answer.
Which question are you really interested in asking?
"Do Good for Good is Good to do. Spurn Bribe of Heaven and Threat of Hell"
- The Kasidah of Haji abdu al-Yezdi
- The Kasidah of Haji abdu al-Yezdi
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Angel
Post #8
I agree with your position Deadclown esp. taking out myself if I somehow came to know I'd be responsible for even 1 murder.
I know Paradigm brings up free-will and yes that is a problem with foreknowledge, but even w/out free-will I think the principle behind the questions in my OP would still apply.
I know Paradigm brings up free-will and yes that is a problem with foreknowledge, but even w/out free-will I think the principle behind the questions in my OP would still apply.
Last edited by Angel on Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Angel
Post #9
You're right, the wording is off compared to the title but I'd want to know about anyone taking out baby Hitler. In a sense though, anyone would be playing God if they did possess foreknowledge of some sort and manipulating history arguably for a greater good.Strider324 wrote:The thread title does not match the question asked.
If God took out Hitler is an entirely different subject than if I did, and has a different answer.
Which question are you really interested in asking?
What would be different for God if he did it?
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Strider324
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Post #10
If god did it he would immediately be subject to all sorts of questions that would not apply to a fallible human like me.Angel wrote:You're right, the wording is off compared to the title but I'd want to know about anyone taking out baby Hitler. In a sense though, anyone would be playing God if they did possess foreknowledge of some sort and manipulating history arguably for a greater good.Strider324 wrote:The thread title does not match the question asked.
If God took out Hitler is an entirely different subject than if I did, and has a different answer.
Which question are you really interested in asking?
What would be different for God if he did it?
Why did you create this evil soul to begin with?
Do you not already know all things?
Are you so incompetent or addle-brained that you forget this individual would facilitate the murder of millions?
Yes, a significant difference beween a god and me.
"Do Good for Good is Good to do. Spurn Bribe of Heaven and Threat of Hell"
- The Kasidah of Haji abdu al-Yezdi
- The Kasidah of Haji abdu al-Yezdi
