As long as you believe in God...

[QED]

Straying off from another topic...

....it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in the UB. Some mortals wouldn't believe in God or choose His way even if they could see angels and other types of superplanetary beings. The declining of God's way is not exclusive to this world nor is it a phenomenon that post dates the Lucifer Rebellion.

As long as you believe in God in some genuine way....any genuine way, and have assured yourself future survival and continuing life when your time on this world over....then I will have no "worries" for you.

So Woody is saying that it doesn't matter which book we get our mythology from so long as it gives us faith that there is more to existence than the few brief moments we seem to have to enjoy under the sun.

"Fear knocked at the door. Faith answered. No one was there."

I can see from the above proverb that faith has the potential to overcome what might seem like insurmountable problems. But while this might make faith a virtue I fail to see why people like Woody are so concerned about those of us who believe death to be more than a match for faith.

Woody seems to be saying that simply having a spiritual nature can turn-around our ultimate fate regardless of the source of our spirituality. Does this really make any sense at all? It seems more like an earnest attempt at persuading everyone into believing in something supernatural no matter what.

[Scrotum]

Sounds like that Occars (?) razor thing.


Well, one thing, of course, is ignorance. Lets say you would accept this point, the only problem for intellectual people (like myself for example), is that i would be forced to ignore reality and commonsense....

Which i cant, i cant live in ignorance just because i should believe in something that does not exist. It does not make sense, sorry. I prefer being happy and intelligent then ignorant and... blissful?

[Cathar1950]

"He is a man of faith"
I wonder how many times I have heard that while they also have bad ideas?
I got this note in email that said something like I would rather believe in God and be wrong then not and be right. Or something like that.
It seemed to me that just believing in God was not very reassuring. What do they believe about God is just as important. Which God might be something they want to consider too.
The best I have heard said about faith was that it meant faithfulness. It seems that just believing any dumb thing is enough to be considered a person of faith. Religion and tradition have their usefulness in community and personal growth but some times you have to grow.

[bernee51]

Straying off from another topic...

....it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in the UB. Some mortals wouldn't believe in God or choose His way even if they could see angels and other types of superplanetary beings. The declining of God's way is not exclusive to this world nor is it a phenomenon that post dates the Lucifer Rebellion.

As long as you believe in God in some genuine way....any genuine way, and have assured yourself future survival and continuing life when your time on this world over....then I will have no "worries" for you.

So Woody is saying that it doesn't matter which book we get our mythology from so long as it gives us faith that there is more to existence than the few brief moments we seem to have to enjoy under the sun.

"Fear knocked at the door. Faith answered. No one was there."

I can see from the above proverb that faith has the potential to overcome what might seem like insurmountable problems. But while this might make faith a virtue I fail to see why people like Woody are so concerned about those of us who believe death to be more than a match for faith.

Woody seems to be saying that simply having a spiritual nature can turn-around our ultimate fate regardless of the source of our spirituality. Does this really make any sense at all? It seems more like an earnest attempt at persuading everyone into believing in something supernatural no matter what.

It is remarkable how the invisible and non-existent look so similar.

[Cathar1950]

bernee51 wrote:

It is remarkable how the invisible and non-existent look so similar.

How about "totaly other", "beyond our comprehension", "Unknown or unknowable", "beyond time and space".
Kind of makes you wonder what the point is.
If it does not correspond to our experiences I would like to know how it could even be reveled that alone understood. Makes me question dogma just a little bit. It also makes me question the idea of a book(collection of writings) being the "word of God".

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Well, one thing, of course, is ignorance. Lets say you would accept this point, the only problem for intellectual people (like myself for example), is that i would be forced to ignore reality and commonsense....

Common sense and faith are not necissarily antithetical.

Hope and happiness are sensible things to strive for. I would think that using religion as a method for attaining them would be reasonable by anyone's standards.

Many a time I find myself staring into the stary sky looking for answers. Unfortunately, they never come. Even by means of research I have been unable to extract any clear conclusion. Everything we have to go on is based on sketchy philosophical insights, worth absolutely nothing to one seeking objective answers. No matter what, at the end of the day we are still right here on Earth; no way of going back in time to the genesis, no way of traveling to the far reaches of the universe in search for clues. Stuck.

Well, just like millions upon millions of other human beings, I am not content being just "stuck". I know what I would like to believe, and being that there is no real evidence suggesting something to the contrary, what is stopping me from subscribing to that belief? Do you suggest that I am somehow hurting myself by ignoring "reality"? Can you objectively tell me just what "reality" truely is? There is no reality to ignore. No common sense to sanction. This world has never been less discerning.

Fortunately, through means of God I may disect some purpose from my life, granting hope for the future, and general well being. I find your arrogant tone againt people of faith to be completely and utterly unfounded. I have used sound judgement and rationality in the forming of my concusion- which is, by the way, the dictoral definition of "intelligence".

Your rational leads you to a cessation defining death as the end of life. Thats fine. But that does not mean that people who percieve things in a different way are any less acute to their surroundings.

I can see from the above proverb that faith has the potential to overcome what might seem like insurmountable problems. But while this might make faith a virtue I fail to see why people like Woody are so concerned about those of us who believe death to be more than a match for faith.

I was under the impression that this is what this forum is designed for. Sharing viewpoints; exchanging knowledge. Only by these means may we truely grow. If people had not have ever challenged my position, I would never have reached the personal revelation that drives me today.

[Cathar1950]

Hope and happiness are sensible things to strive for. I would think that using religion as a method for attaining them would be reasonable by anyone's standards.

I see no problem with Faith or even belief especially when it comes to the unknown.
When my Children were born I understood why God created humans.
Yet I don't believe he did it in 6 days or 6000 to 12000 years ago.
I see Spirituality or religious experience as going beyond my limits to include a connectiveness to all things. But I am not going to toss out history science facts knowledge and reason just to protect my egocentric and personal views often received as a child from ignorant and well meaning preachers.

[Bro Dave]

This is an interesting quote for me, because I was raised around folks who, not wanting to argue over religion, declared much the same opinion. Then, as I got older, I came to a subset of QED’s opinion; That it was all just a cop out, and that “unbelievers” made “believers” uncomfortable, so as long as the espoused a belief in something, anything beyond the physical, they “kind-of” provided support for all believers. Now, I find I have come full circle! Having spent a lifetime wrestling with philosophy and religion, I understand why and INFINITE Creator would be pleased for his smallest of intelligent creatures, just to have realized He is there. What we call Him, or in what distorted way we perceive Him is not so important. We can and will grow. But growth implies movement, and if you are not looking in God’s direction, improving your understanding of Him, and your relationship to him, remain outside your reach.

Bro Dave

[The Persnickety Platypus]

But I am not going to toss out history science facts knowledge and reason just to protect my egocentric and personal views

Nor am I. I believe that my particular thiestic view coincides with all known data.

Yet I don't believe he did it in 6 days or 6000 to 12000 years ago.

2 Peter 3:8
Dear friends, don't ignore this fact: One day with the Lord is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.

This can offer no definitive answers, but it certainly raises some questions. It makes sense, after all- God has no measure of time, he knows only eternity. Humans concieved such criterion. Therefore it would make sense that He would translate the chronology of genesis in terms we could comprehend.

To me, it seems clear that the events/stories of the Bible are meant to be solely figurative. Scientific knowledge is not a seperate entity; it may be encompassed within a spiritual worldview.

Science offers an acceptable explanation as to how we came to be, but lacks any answer as to why. The initiation of the universe is also not sufficiently covered in scientific theory. By adding the supreme creator factor into the equation I feel that I cover all bases.