What is our Universe Status?

[Bro Dave]

Are we all Citizens of this Universe? Or are we just egotistical virus' living on a speck of space dust? Are all those innumerable stars and galaxies really just sky decorations? Or are we someone elses "decorations" as well?

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java ... index.html

Bro Dave

[QED]

All these "directional" words! "Purpose", and "evolve"; Do they not imply the unfolding of an underlying "plan"? The mindless dashing about suggested by an unordered Universe just seems absurd to me. I still need a rule maker to get it all within reason.

I can understand that and I'm not being patronizing. When it comes to the true source of things like logic there is a definite conundrum. But if you had joined the thread titled Whence came the order in the cosmos? you would see that there exist profoundly deep and simple ordering processes that can give rise to all the order displayed in the universe. If nothing else, please have a few clicks (at least 30) on the right arrow below the diagram you'll find on this link. The very same pattern is visible on a sea shell (you can see it in the other topic I mentioned).

The crude 1D cellular automata demonstrates that logic and material that logic can operate on will inevitably churn out order (design) without the sort of intelligence that we are familiar with. Randomness plays a part in simply hitting a few of the "right notes" to set the rules. Things then take on "a life of their own". I know of the many elaborate myths and legends that try to rationalize all this into the doings of greater intelligences than us -- a natural guess in the absence of the right sort of knowledge. But only in the last fifty years or so have we gained this knowledge and the other explanations look weak by comparison.

BUT I can't be so cock-sure about what it means for us to have logic and material in the first place -- but it seems very plain that once they exist things naturally organize themselves into everything we see around us.

I feel like I'm evolving along with the universe. I think we're both on an equal footing. I have no idea what place we might be a citizen of.

[Cathar1950]

Maybe we are food for the gods.
It is almost harvest time and they are coming to collect us like mushrooms. Then they take off and come back when we are ready again for harvest.
All those religious ideas of purity are just protecting the crops.

[Scrotum]

Cathar, your heresy can be detected in the fact that you speak plural.

There is only One God remember? And HE is coming soon......

[trencacloscas]

Once again, Sagan comes in handy:

“Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.”

[Cathar1950]

Fine then just one god is coming back for his mushrooms.
So I am no longer a heritic?
I like Sagan!

[ST88]

But it seems arrogant to assume we are anything of special merit, especially when we cannot objectively determine what else is out there. There may be an infinite number of intelligent civilizations in a theoretical open universe.

We seem to stumble between arrogance, and total self deprecation. We stand dead center between the most massive and the tiniest components of the Universe. We are significant, within our limitations..

"Dead center" is perhaps overstating it a tad, don't you think? Rather this scale-illusion would seem to be more of a function of the two directions of scientific inquiry, towards the very large and towards the very small in terms of our viewpoint.

[Cathar1950]

"Dead center" is perhaps overstating it a tad, don't you think? Rather this scale-illusion would seem to be more of a function of the two directions of scientific inquiry, towards the very large and towards the very small in terms of our viewpoint.

Oh, so true St88. Stuck in the middle with you. That is a song I think.
Do you think were are burning the candle at both ends?
It seems the more I learn the less arrogant I feel. Usually car salesmen are arrogant.

[Bro Dave]

[quote="QED"]If nothing else, please have a few clicks (at least 30) on the right arrow below the diagram you'll find on this link. The very same pattern is visible on a sea shell (you can see it in the other topic I mentioned).

QED, I think we are some substantial agreement here. Yes, the Univese has a marvelous "autopilot". The difficulty we have, is the contamination attached to the originator of the autopilot. We've heaped so much human distortion on what we refer to as "God",(or the many appellations thereof, that we have a knee jerk reaction against the entire concept. Whatever the "mechanism" involved, it is clearly beyond your or my understanding or delineation. Our physcial view of it all, approaches being nearly totally limited. Reaching beyond that physical view is, for some unacceptable. But for those who are able to see past pitifull human attempts at defining the undefinable, there is indeed more to be known. This, unfortunately will always be an individual journey, and never truly shareable with anyone else.

BTW, did you enjoy the "Cosmic Zoom"? I think they did a nice job.

Bro Dave

[Bro Dave]

Once again, Sagan comes in handy:

“Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.”

Even Carl finally became convinced of the existance of a Creator. Too bad he will only be remembered for his early discovery phase of enlightenment.

Bro Dave

[Cathar1950]

Bro Dave wrote:

Even Carl finally became convinced of the existance of a Creator. Too bad he will only be remembered for his early discovery phase of enlightenment

We should be happy for the bright shine he left.
The conviction of a creator does not mean every ones creator.
Maybe he just say the inter-connectivness of the universe.