Creationism: only in America

trencacloscas · Post by **trencacloscas** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:38 am

Why this creationist fuzz isn't happening anywhere else?

I live in Europe, and all this thing looks so ridiculous from here. Not even churches or religious fanatics go into such speculations. When the Berlusconi administration (Italy, right wing) pretended to ban the mention of Evolution from the first grades of schools, the scorn was so unanimous that they had to back off in shame, and this was probably the only incident remotely related to the issue.

So, why the U.S.A. is involved in this strange controversy?

Scrotum · Post by **Scrotum** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:38 pm

Dont be like that Chimp, soon you´ll be walking around saying that Terra is a Sphere.. pleeeeazeee..

Actually, morphing that with the topic, most americans WOULD be able to claim the earth to be flat (it says in the bible), because there are so few americans EVER leaving their country (notto mention state), that they could just claim its delusions from the ones claiming it (they being rich and all, and can afford it).

haha, sorry.

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:31 pm

pleeeeazeee..

I think that's... puhhhhleeeeese...

I believe it would be spheroid...but not a sphere.

-edit for stupid typo...-

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:45 pm

Chimp wrote:
jcrawford wrote:Show me some mtDNA sequences from Heidleberg Man or a chimpanzee that suggest that there IS a material contribution to your genes from them.
Chimps and humans share a common ancestor, which is different than them being our ancestors, so you will not see a contribution in humans from chimps.

Modern H. sapiens and Heidleberg Man are also said to share a common ancestor in H. erectus, but you will not see a contribution in humans from H. erectus since there is no DNA evidence of it.

The reason for this is that early/archaic humans like Heidleberg Man descended from Neanderthal Man before evolving into Caucasians.

QED · Post by **QED** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:37 am

Human ancestry is not the topic here fellas. Creationism being peculiar to the US is.

trencacloscas wrote:
U.S.A. bashing seems pretty popular in the defunct European Union nowadays, especially in secular 'Cro-Magnon' France.
Wrong. U.S.A. bashing is popular throughout the whole world, for the whole world have scars from the U.S.A. imperialism. Does the expression 'Kyoto Protocol' ring a bell?

I think Trenc has raised an interesting point here. Creationism teaches that God set the stage specifically for us humans. It also teaches that the planets resources are ours to do whatever we like with. The sobering lessons that we can learn from the conditions on our nearest planetary neighbours Venus and Mars probably mean nothing to people with a creationist outlook. I can imagine that as far as they're concerned God just made things the way they are and that's how they'll always stay.

But we have evidence that things do change. It's now beyond doubt that Mars once had copious amounts of surface water and a different atmosphere. Something happened to the climate (relatively recently it now seems) to render the planet barren. Venus tells us what excess Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere can do. Who knows what we might find out about that particular planets history one day.

But we also know that the Earth was once covered in huge Forrest's collecting and fixing carbon from the atmosphere for hundreds of millions of years -- or just a few thousand depending on ones religious convictions! What a difference this makes to the vast unsupervised experiment we are currently conducting: Digging up all the carbon laid down over a few thousand years and releasing it back into the atmosphere sounds relatively safe compared to releasing a few hundred million years worth of stored carbon. So maybe the phenomenon of biblical fundamentalism prevalent in the US today is also feeding into the social and political policies resulting in a rejection of the 'Kyoto Protocol'.

As global warming becomes an undeniable reality no doubt the fundamentalists will come up with their own stylized explanation.

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:55 pm

QED wrote:Human ancestry is not the topic here fellas. Creationism being peculiar to the US is.

Human and U.S. ancestry/descent from Noah is especially peculiar and relevent to U.S. theories of creationism since we are a religious people.

As global warming becomes an undeniable reality no doubt the fundamentalists will come up with their own stylized explanation.

Global warming is not the topic here, QED.

QED · Post by **QED** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:46 am

jcrawford wrote:
QED wrote:Human ancestry is not the topic here fellas. Creationism being peculiar to the US is.
Human and U.S. ancestry/descent from Noah is especially peculiar and relevent to U.S. theories of creationism since we are a religious people.

This is a very odd (but revealing) statement for you to make. Surely your entire thesis is that all humans are descended from Noah... not just those that found their way to America a few hundred years ago.

jcrawford wrote:Global warming is not the topic here, QED.

Thanks for your opinion, but I disagree with you because unlike common descent among all peoples of the world, the U.S. is singled out as being the world's biggest producer of CO2. Now I went to some length drawing what I think might be valid parallels between the creationists worldview and the sort of mindset that can lead to a refusal to sign up with the Kyoto protocol. The fact that this observation seems off topic to you only goes to reinforce my suspicions. Thanks for the booster

trencacloscas · Post by **trencacloscas** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:37 am

Global warming is not the topic here, QED.

Yes, it is. Since there is nothing related in the Bible, superstitious Christians tend to think that the planet cares for itself while resources are sucked merciless. And, of course, creationism is some crazy superstition that flourishes in the U.S.A., the country that refuses to sign the Kyoto Protocole in spite of being the most contaminating one in the world. All is pretty related, don't you think?

Scrotum · Post by **Scrotum** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:11 pm

I think that's... puhhhhleeeeese...

I was pondering how to spell it. You learn something new everyday. Thanx

I believe it would be spheroid...but not a sphere.

I went blank and settled for sphere, sorry

Human and U.S. ancestry/descent from Noah is especially peculiar and relevent to U.S. theories of creationism since we are a religious people.

Global warming is not the topic here, QED.

Yes, it is. Since there is nothing related in the Bible, superstitious Christians tend to think that the planet cares for itself while resources are sucked merciless. And, of course, creationism is some crazy superstition that flourishes in the U.S.A., the country that refuses to sign the Kyoto Protocole in spite of being the most contaminating one in the world. All is pretty related, don't you think?

OH man, its like CHRISTMAS... Hey, it Is Christmas.

I am curious, how come he(you) say "U.S ancestry"... Thats kinda odd. Like me talking about how the Irish in Dublin has evolved from the ....... and so forth. Why U.S ?

You do know there is a world outside the U.S/Your State? Right?

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:41 pm

QED wrote:
jcrawford wrote:
QED wrote:Human ancestry is not the topic here fellas. Creationism being peculiar to the US is.
Human and U.S. ancestry/descent from Noah is especially peculiar and relevent to U.S. theories of creationism since we are a religious people.
This is a very odd (but revealing) statement for you to make. Surely your entire thesis is that all humans are descended from Noah... not just those that found their way to America a few hundred years ago.

Of course. Defending creationism seems to be a special concern here in America, though. Maybe that's because our nation sings God Bless America and trusts in God rather than neo-Darwinist racial theories of evolutionist supremacy.

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:55 pm

trencacloscas wrote:
Global warming is not the topic here, QED.
Yes, it is. Since there is nothing related in the Bible, superstitious Christians tend to think that the planet cares for itself while resources are sucked merciless. And, of course, creationism is some crazy superstition that flourishes in the U.S.A., the country that refuses to sign the Kyoto Protocole in spite of being the most contaminating one in the world. All is pretty related, don't you think?
I don't know what the burning of fossil fuels has to do with creationist assessments of the human fossil record. Are you saying that Christian beliefs in their Neanderthal origins from Noah are mere superstition or crazy?