Questions for Christians

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southern cross
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Questions for Christians

Post #1

Post by southern cross »

These questions will only come one at a time. If you attempt to quantify the question then your answer will be void.
The first very EASY question:
Is god omnipotent?

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Mithrae
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Post #11

Post by Mithrae »

JoeyKnothead wrote:
Mithrae wrote:If God is 'omnipotent,' surely she can create a completely immovable rock, one that even she cannot move; but if God is 'omnipotent,' surely she can move anything, even that rock. That's obviously a logical contradiction. It cannot even be coherently conceived that a being can both move, and not move an object. Is that what Southern Cross meant by 'omnipotent' - having power to do anything whatsoever, however absurd?
"God can do all, 'cept for that he can't do."

Do you consider that statement a logical contradiction?

. . . . .
Mithrae wrote:...
Without clearly explaining what he means by the term 'omnipotent,' his request for a simple yes or no answer to the question "Is God omnipotent?" is meaningless in its ambiguity.
I was and am trying to hold directly to how you defined it (realizing we're mixing conversations here, but I still think my position relevant).

As you define the terms, is it not that "omni" means "all"?

As you define the terms, is it not that "powerful" means "full of power"?

If so, it is my firm conviction that "all full of power" should mean "all the power".

In this regard then, I propose the declaration that a god is "omnipotent", except for that which he can't do, is as goofy as my declaring I can beat the ol' lady up, but for the fact I can't hit a girl.
I can see where you're coming from, but I think that's precisely the reason defining terms like that is important (particularly if, for some as-yet unknown reason, you wanted only a yes-or-no answer). The blue comment isn't a contradiction (as two separate comments, 'god can do all' and 'god can't do that' they'd contradict each other of course) but I agree that it'd be a pretty goofy thing to say unless the hyperbole is well-recognised. For example on the one hand it would be goofy to say that "Pete can do anything, except the things he can't do"; whereas on the other hand we'd more or less know what is meant if someone says "The king can do anything," and wouldn't consider it goofy (redundant maybe) to add "The king can't destroy the sun."

Similarly we might say that the universe has all atoms. Does the universe have the sqwglfst atoms? Does it have the atoms of Sauron's one ring? According to some folk, to say that god has all power means simply that it has all 'power' that there is. That's not goofy, is it?

There's a bit of a gap between "has all power" and "can do anything" (though that depends on what 'power' means, I imagine), and more importantly another leap again before we reach "can do absolutely anything, no matter how absurd or contradictory." Some theists (apparently Rkrause, for example) do apply that last one to their god, while others do not. So before expecting folk to answer YES or NO to his question about 'omnipotence,' Southern Cross ought to explain precisely what he means by the term to avoid that ambiguity.

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