Christians and Debt

[Tommy63]

It is easy to see our nation has a multi-trillion dollar debt, our credit card companies are at full speed, foreclosures are everywhere.

My question is how does a body of christians find it okay to build a multi-million dollar church and put it on a mortgage loan, when God said we are not to be in debt, and think everything is gonna be alright?

Shouldn't they gather the money first and then purchase a building?

My second question is how can anyone who preaches or teaches the word of God own a credit card?

As anyone can see hypocrisy has no boundaries when it comes to Christians practicing what they preach to others.

I feel so humiliated to say I'm a Christian to anyone because of this. I will always believe in my one and only God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But, I fear our shepards are leading the flock in the wrong direction. Revelations is starting to make much more sense to me now.

[McCulloch]

It is easy to see our nation has a multi-trillion dollar debt, our credit card companies are at full speed, foreclosures are everywhere.

Still there are more debts that are honored then debts that are foreclosed. The problem is not debt itself, but people and organizations which are either stupid or unlucky who get into more debt than is warranted by their revenue.

My question is how does a body of christians find it okay to build a multi-million dollar church and put it on a mortgage loan, when God said we are not to be in debt, and think everything is gonna be alright?

Shouldn't they gather the money first and then purchase a building?

There is a precedent in the New Testament. The disciples sold their own possessions and property to support the church. If the work of the church is important to Christians, then the money will be forthcoming. Evidence suggests that the work of the church is not really that important to Christians. This could mean one of two things: The Church leadership is making poor decisions with regard to its priorities; or the average Christian does not feel that the work of the church is as important as they should.

My second question is how can anyone who preaches or teaches the word of God own a credit card?

Nothing wrong with having a credit card. If you pay it off every month. Done properly, you establish a good credit rating, financial reputation AND you get a zero interest loan from the time you make your purchases to the date of your monthly statement. The problem, which the banks use to their advantage, is that many people, even many Christians, lack the will power (isn't the Holy Spirit supposed to help with this?) to resist making credit card purchases that are beyond their current means. The interest on credit card debt, beyond the first period, is usurious.

[Tommy63]

I do enjoy your responses McCulloch. It let's me know someone is listening to my question.

If the disciples sold the properties then they were given their amount in full which is what I saying. But how was the church built? Do you know of anyone selling their houses and giving the money to their church? That is trust in God.

So how was the church built in the bible? I don't recall any debt owed to someone for the construction of the church in the bible?

I do believe a credit card is not a good thing to have. If God said He would provide for us, and we truely believe Him, then why would we go out and purchase something on credit? If God said to not think about tomorrow for it is not certian, then why would we want to leave owing someone money?

I have watched through my years of growing up, most of a world that is never satisfied with what they have. We have a need to have something no one else has yet. We have a lust for luxury nowadays, so much that we are willing to put ourselves in debt for it. I see the illusions the commercial ads on TV, making you believe you a getting a great deal on a car or home loan, when in the end you are paying 3-4x the amount of that product because of greed. Jesus said the fields were plenty and the workers are few, because he knew how weak man's will is.

Jesus also warned us not to get caught up in these worldly things, which in my opinion, the Christian world has completely gotten caught up in this web. We have so many denominations and deities being created to fit our own needs. God said not to add to or take from this bible. This is why I believe the shepards have fallen into that snares as talked about in Proverbs, and are leading us to the wolves den.

There are many out there still fighting the good fight, and I am searching for them. It's sad to see a world failing like it is today, but it is my job to warn as many as I can before the ship goes down.

I AM STILL PROUD TO BE A CHRISTIAN!!

[czyz]

...but it is my job to warn as many as I can before the ship goes down.

I AM STILL PROUD TO BE A CHRISTIAN!!

"Respect those who seek the truth, be wary of those who claim to have found it."
Mark Twain

I rest my case.

[Tommy63]

...but it is my job to warn as many as I can before the ship goes down.

I AM STILL PROUD TO BE A CHRISTIAN!!

"Respect those who seek the truth, be wary of those who claim to have found it."
Mark Twain

I rest my case.

What case would that be? I said 'warn' as in 'to tell let you know about something'. I didn't say preach or instruct. If you were in a building full of people and a fire broke out would you not try to warn the people so their lives are not lost? I respect everyone's right to believe in whatever they believe in, but when you take this twain quote, and put it under my comments, you have made it more of an insult to me and my beliefs. So where is my respect? This answer had nothing to do with Christians and debt, it was a poke at me. So now I will end this thread. Thanks brother.

By the way, if you rest your case, I guess that means you claim to have found your answer, so now I guess I must be wary of you?

[czyz]

What case would that be? I said 'warn' as in 'to tell let you know about something'. I didn't say preach or instruct. If you were in a building full of people and a fire broke out would you not try to warn the people so their lives are not lost? I respect everyone's right to believe in whatever they believe in, but when you take this twain quote, and put it under my comments, you have made it more of an insult to me and my beliefs. So where is my respect? This answer had nothing to do with Christians and debt, it was a poke at me. So now I will end this thread. Thanks brother.

By the way, if you rest your case, I guess that means you claim to have found your answer, so now I guess I must be wary of you?

No disrespect intended, sir. Your post assumes that you are warning people about something that you believe as truth when you have no more access to information about God than anyone else. Please don't act petulant and run away from our debate. It is only through an exchange of beliefs and knowledge that we grow.

Christianity and Islam (Judaism to a lesser extent) offer extraordinary claims based on zero evidence. It is of course everyone's right to believe anything they want but as Isaac Asimov once opined:

“I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be. �

[connermt]

[Replying to post 1 by Tommy63]

My question is how does a body of christians find it okay to build a multi-million dollar church and put it on a mortgage loan, when God said we are not to be in debt, and think everything is gonna be alright?

Because the bible is capable of being "interpreted" as basically anything depending on who you are and what agenda you want to pursue.
Want to love everyone? There's a bible app for that
Want to hate everyone? There's a bible app for that
Want to live in poverty happily? There's a bible app for that
Want to be rich? There's a bible app for that, too

[McCulloch]

If the disciples sold the properties then they were given their amount in full which is what I saying. But how was the church built? Do you know of anyone selling their houses and giving the money to their church? That is trust in God.

The modern church seems to be singularly lacking in their trust in God. A friend of mine, a Christian, recently praised God for three recent conversions; their ministry apparently has really begun to take off. In a community of just over half a million people, three conversions in the past two weeks represents to them a praiseworthy increase in evangelistic outcome.

So how was the church built in the bible? I don't recall any debt owed to someone for the construction of the church in the bible?

The church is people, not buildings. So many Christians miss this very simple idea. You don't go to church; you are part of a church, which must by its very nature, meet together however it can. At times, the church meets in borrowed facilities, members' homes, rented facilities or if the circumstances warrant, they may even purchase or build a place to meet. But their meeting place is not the church.

I do believe a credit card is not a good thing to have. If God said He would provide for us, and we truely believe Him, then why would we go out and purchase something on credit? If God said to not think about tomorrow for it is not certian, then why would we want to leave owing someone money?

I think that you, like many people, mistake a credit card with the easy but high interest debt associated with credit cards. Responsibly used, there need be no interest paid on credit card debt. Most prudent financial advisers suggest that most people have one credit card and that they use it. But only if you pay off the entire balance every month and accrue no additional debt. If you lack the self-control to do that, then you are better off without a credit card. Now this should be no problem for Christians. Isn't one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit supposed to be self-control? So, with the Holy Spirit to guide them and their own focus on heavenly treasures not earthly ones, Christians should be the least likely victims of the lure of easy credit represented by the credit card industry. Right?