Homosexuality

[razovor]

I was wondering if anyone who considers homosexuality a sin, could tell me what is wrong with it.

I'm talking in the sense of utilitarian morals. How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

[DanieltheDragon]

Replying to post 139 by Sonofason]

ok... can we get back on topic

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 139 by Sonofason]

asking pardon for a fault or offense

sorry I get words mixed up sometimes eradicate not exterminate

how is this not an apology I made a mental error now get off your high horse you deluded prick

see that was intentionally offensive the mistake in misquoting you was an accident.

now get back on topic instead of making mountains of mole hills.

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 139 by Sonofason]

asking pardon for a fault or offense

sorry I get words mixed up sometimes eradicate not exterminate

how is this not an apology I made a mental error now get off your high horse you deluded prick

see that was intentionally offensive the mistake in misquoting you was an accident.

now get back on topic instead of making mountains of mole hills.

Again, a request for pardon is not a justification for the offense. You are not pardoned simply because you put forth a request for a pardon. You are guilty of an offense that no one ever is obliged to pardon. It is by mercy that you are pardoned at all.

To the topic:

How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

"2% of U.S. population is gay yet it accounts for 61% of HIV infection: "Men who have sex with men remain the group most heavily affected by new HIV infections. "
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 013#610013

"The life expectancy for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for men in general. Robert S. Hogg et al., "Modeling the Impact of HIV Disease on Mortality in Gay and Bisexual Men," International Journal of Epidemiology 26 (1997): 657."
http://carm.org/homosexual-gay-sex-harms-no-one

If homosexual sexuality does not harm anyone, then why are the statistics for homosexual AIDS percentages so much higher than the heterosexual population?

If homosexual sex is not harmful, why do any people die of diseases that could have been avoided by abstaining from homosexual conduct?

[Darias]

[Replying to post 141 by Sonofason]

AIDS does not spontaneously generate from homosexual anal intercourse. AIDS is transmitted through contact with blood (dirty needles) or unprotected sex (no condoms).

The greatest number of HIV suffers live in Africa, in regions dominated by Islam and fundamentalist Christianity, neither of which have any tolerance for gay people. Ugandans pretty much voted to have homosexuals jailed or put to death, thinking that would stop the epidemic -- much like Medieval Christians who burned down Jewish villages to stop the Black Death, thinking their Lord would be appeased through that sort of barbarism. Condoms and the like are not properly used there either, no thanks to the advice of the Catholic Church:

As of 2011 approximately 34 million people have HIV worldwide.[2] Of these, approximately 17.2 million are men, 16.8 million are women and 3.4 million are less than 15 years old.[2] There were about 1.8 million deaths from AIDS in 2010, down from 2.2 million in 2005.[2]

Sub-Saharan Africa is the region most affected. In 2010, an estimated 68% (22.9 million) of all HIV cases and 66% of all deaths (1.2 million) occurred in this region.[3]

Why is Africa so affected? Well, you have to know its origins to understand why:

Most AIDS researchers believe that the "bushmeat trade" allowed the HIV-1 virus, and separately HIV-2, to enter the human bloodstream several times. Hunters who kill and butcher chimps and monkeys are regularly exposed to animal blood teeming with SIVs. If the hunters have cuts, bites, or scratches -- and given the nature of their work they almost always do -- they can catch the viruses from their prey. Hunters going after chimps in Cameroon could have caught the first strains of HIV-1. Sooty mangabeys, hunted and kept as pets in West Africa, could have transmitted HIV-2 to humans.

Africans have hunted chimps and monkeys and kept them as pets for centuries; they've presumably been exposed to SIVs during most of that time. But the conditions needed for HIV to spread widely weren't in place until after the continent was colonized and urbanized. The first victims would have found it easier to unwittingly spread the virus to sexual partners far and wide as roads and vehicles started connecting previously isolated villages and cities. Hospitals may have played a role, too. Strapped for cash, some of them probably re-used dirty needles, unknowingly infecting patients in the process.

HIV is a virus, so please stop acting as though Yahweh impregnates gay men with HIV in their colon, in much the same way he supposedly orchestrated a virgin's pregnancy.

You can get aids from your partner whether you're in a marriage or just began a relationship, whether you're straight, bi, or gay. You can even be born with aids, or get it from breastfeeding.

As for the discrepancy you noted... most people who have HIV worldwide are heterosexuals of both genders. In western countries, most people who suffer from it are gays and bisexuals. However, there is a greater chance of AIDS transmission with an infected partner from anal sex than vaginal sex (whether you're in a gay or straight relationship). This may be another reason why it has a greater effect LGBT persons in the west, aside from failure to practice safe sex. Maybe people think that because they can't get pregnant, they don't need a condom? I don't know.

I can't speak for other people. I myself am attracted to both sexes but I'm a virgin who dislikes polyamorous relationships or the thought of casual sex. If I ever do have sex, it will be with someone I love... and I'm gonna probably double up on the condoms, and I probably won't have anal intercourse because it just doesn't appeal to me.

If AIDS were a curse, then cause and effect wouldn't matter and I'd just up and have it through no fault of my own or through no fault of my parents -- aside from my "conscious decision" to like guys. But since AIDS is a virus and not magic, I don't have to worry about such nonsense.



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[Sonofason]

[Replying to Darias]

Darias wrote:

However, there is a greater chance of AIDS transmission with an infected partner from anal sex than vaginal sex

May I remind you that the question of this thread was:

How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

And with this one statement, you have just admitted that anal sex, the only means of coitus between homosexuals, increases the chance of acquiring AIDS, which certainly increases suffering in the world.

[Darias]

[Replying to post 143 by Sonofason]

Anal sex with an infected partner makes for a slightly larger chance of getting HIV than having vaginal sex with an infected partner. Having anal sex does not mean you will get infected. This viral infection does not spontaneously occur based on a sex position.

Anal sex is more widely practiced by straight couples since the number of straight persons outnumber LGBT persons by about 95%. If you want to wage a crusade on the "evils" of anal sex, good luck:

"Anal Sex More Popular Than Possibly Expected Among Heterosexual Couples: Center for Disease Control and Prevention Report"

And as I said previously, anal sex is not the only way to engage in same-sex activity. For example, they could engage in the other version of of sodomy, fellatio -- commonly known as a bj. Fellatio is extremely popular among straight couples, as I'm sure you're aware. As an alternative to anal sex, gay couples could also engage in frottage, just as easily as straight couples could. A number of gay and bi couples forgo anal sex for the other two.

I'm not a sex guru, and I haven't read the Kama Sutra, but the information I just gave is pretty basic. There is more to a sex life than the missionary position. I'm just kinda surprised you think gays can only have sex one way.

Again, even if you think anal sex is the root cause of the problem, then why target a minority of the global population that participates in it? There are millions of people who engage in sodomy in the bedroom and most of them aren't gay, single, or godless. So I don't understand the obsession with gays, or the blame for gays for disease that most straight people have, or the fixation on gays for a sex position that is mostly practiced by straights.

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 143 by Sonofason]

Anal sex with an infected partner makes for a slightly larger chance of getting HIV than having vaginal sex with an infected partner. Having anal sex does not mean you will get infected. This viral infection does not spontaneously occur based on a sex position.

Anal sex is more widely practiced by straight couples since the number of straight persons outnumber LGBT persons by about 95%. If you want to wage a crusade on the "evils" of anal sex, good luck:

"Anal Sex More Popular Than Possibly Expected Among Heterosexual Couples: Center for Disease Control and Prevention Report"

And as I said previously, anal sex is not the only way to engage in same-sex activity. For example, they could engage in the other version of of sodomy, fellatio -- commonly known as a bj. Fellatio is extremely popular among straight couples, as I'm sure you're aware. As an alternative to anal sex, gay couples could also engage in frottage, just as easily as straight couples could. A number of gay and bi couples forgo anal sex for the other two.

I'm not a sex guru, and I haven't read the Kama Sutra, but the information I just gave is pretty basic. There is more to a sex life than the missionary position. I'm just kinda surprised you think gays can only have sex one way.

Again, even if you think anal sex is the root cause of the problem, then why target a minority of the global population that participates in it? There are millions of people who engage in sodomy in the bedroom and most of them aren't gay, single, or godless. So I don't understand the obsession with gays, or the blame for gays for disease that most straight people have, or the fixation on gays for a sex position that is mostly practiced by straights.

I'm sorry, I cannot read this comment. I cannot read any more comments on this thread. I'm sorry for leaving my two cents. I cannot stomach this topic. It is a most evil subject to discuss. I'm out.

[Darias]

[Replying to post 145 by Sonofason]

I was merely contesting your claims that anal sex causes AIDS, or that by simply using that sex position, one can contract AIDS -- even if neither partner, gay or straight, already have the infection. I was also correcting your view that anal sex is the only way same sex intercourse can occur. All I did was use scientific terms to inform you on a topic you seem quite uninformed about. However, based on your bizarre reaction, it is as if I had provided you with a porn link.

I don't understand why you choose to disengage now, and as far as I'm concerned the only thing you need be sorry for is for being wrong.

Believe whatever you want about gays and homosexuality... but don't stretch the truth to try and prove that same sex activity is somehow responsible for disease.

There is so much more evil in the world to concern oneself with, so I don't understand why a simple sex position troubles you so. It doesn't seem that important or worth worrying about all things considered. No one is making you try it if you don't want to.

In all honesty, this is as ridiculous as a vegetarian who gets angry at people who eat meat. Yes eating contaminated or raw meat is unsafe, but there are precautions one can take to avoid getting sick. It's certainly not grounds for saying meat is evil.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to Darias]

He's just angry we don't share his homicidal hitler rage to homosexuality. Anal is not the only form of homosexual sex he is only considering men not women to boot lol. Thanks for saving my time refuting his closeted rage.

[master_blaster]

[Replying to post 146 by Darias]

Same reason it always troubles thumpers. They're just awful at sex.