Ann Coulter's new book? Godless Liberals.

[1John2_26]

Quote:
ENIGMA wrote:
Did anyone ever get around to providing a question for debate?

Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?

[melikio]

Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?

You are just trying to inflame someone with that comment.

The claims of "conservatives" no more makes them "right" or "holy", than the claims liberals damn them to hellfire.

It seems that there are a lot of "fakers" who believe they are saying all the "right" things; they stand out as hypocrites to most who are reasonably objective, but the phonies rarely realize or admit their own faults.

I know enough about the Bible, to understand that truly spiritual people are about love and compassion. I've seen as much compassion from liberals, as I have from most conservatives. I don't know what world you live in 1John, but the "truth" isn't merely about what you say; it's about what you do.

I don't give a damn about Coulter's book, but I certainly wouldn't fashion my worldview based upon her perceptions, interpretations and opinions. I've learned that far too many conservatives are wearing a moral veneer; that it's about a SHOW of what they want you to believe, rather than being who they really are.

That looks nice and fits comfortably into the popular views of Christians today, but it isn't REAL; I've experienced those people enough to know what I'm saying (your actual mileage may vary).

-Mel-

[Scrotum]

You mean things like Black people are equally worth to white? Woman should be treated as men? People that do not have the same view as you should not be killed? Rape of woman is just that Rape, and not ´a mans rights´? Children have rights (in all countries except the U.S)?

Stuff like that?

[McCulloch]

Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?

I think that it would be helpful to provide a sample of liberal preaching, statements, beliefs and actions along with the specific passages in the Gospels and Epistles which contradict them. That would give us something concrete to go on.

Defenders of liberal Christianity can then take a number of lines of argument

1. Liberals don't teach or practice that. That is a strawman argument has been made.
2. The Gospels and the Epistles don't teach that. That is the accusation is based on faulty interpretation.
3. Liberal Christianity is not limited by the teachings of the Bible, Christianity has progressed beyond legalistic adherence to that kind of literalism, hitting at the very heart of the controversial question, "How do you define Christian?"

Speaking as a Moderator: this question is limited to the claims about liberal Christians with regard to the New Testament. Comments about conservative Christians are off-topic. Let's try to keep the mud-slinging to a minimum.

[Wyvern]

Quote:
Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?

I would bet that they consider the spirit of the law more important than the letter of the law. Jesus himself summed it up quite nicely, there are but two commandments, love god and love each other. Once you get caught up in the wording and contradictions the love part tends to get thrown out.
on a side note, John you seem to think there is but one christianity and it is yours. This is not the case as can be seen by the number of sects within christianity.

[1John2_26]

From liberals that claim that they are Christians:

A Bishop Speaks
John Shelby Spong

The Right Man for a New World
The new Archbishop of Canterbury must get rid of the Jesus who "died for our sins."

In late February the Church of England, the mother church of Anglicanism, will install a new leader. He is an interesting man and, in my opinion, the best of all possible choices to head the third largest group of Christians in the world. His name is Rowan Williams.

In many ways it was a daring appointment, and in this choice the entire Anglican Communion, of which the Episcopal Church in the United States is a part, has decided to join the modern world. It represented a specific decision to reverse the dreadful and misguided reign of his predecessor, George Carey. Carey had positioned Anglicanism in the right-wing evangelical camp of Bible quoters.

Rowan Williams is only 52 and could serve in this position for almost two decades, giving him time to put his stamp upon the Church. He is a product of England's middle-class who has developed his intellectual skills at both Oxford and Cambridge. He was a theology professor at Oxford prior to being elected a bishop in Wales only a few years ago. Shortly thereafter his fellow bishops in Wales chose him to head the entire Anglican Church in Wales.

Williams has the academic skills to engage changing ideas in our culture. One hopes he will use these gifts to hammer out a Christianity that is both relevant and believable. Christianity desperately needs to escape the language of antiquity that has portrayed sacrifice and shed blood as signs of salvation.

The Jesus who "died for our sins" has simply got to go in our post-Darwinian world. Christianity must move beyond a rescuing Jesus, who overcame a fall that never happened, even metaphorically, to restore human life to a status it has never had, even mythologically. Williams' task is nothing less than to articulate a new Christianity for a new world.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/119/story_11975_1.html

The club-members of liberals all chant their approval of this completely anti-Christ declaration. It is liberal theology. It is Satanic. Biblically speaking.

Coulter, like some other people, are waking up to the lies of false believers. She just has the guts and position to do something to them.

[1John2_26]

1John2_26 wrote:
Quote:
Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?

I would bet that they consider the spirit of the law more important than the letter of the law. Jesus himself summed it up quite nicely, there are but two commandments, love god and love each other.

I would bet they are wrong about the spirit of the law if it means that "do what thou wilt," is actually what they preach and teach, which, clearly it is. Jesus put many limits on many things. The liberal can writhe and scream about the word "limit," but loving God or your neighbor does not mean encouraging them to celebrate abominations.

Once you get caught up in the wording and contradictions the love part tends to get thrown out.

"MY" point exactly. Liberals are spin masters.

on a side note, John you seem to think there is but one Christianity and it is yours.

On an main note, this is a debate website and I have chosen my side. I do not desire to be a lemming and join in on the Christian bashing that goes on here as debate. I choose to bash back. This is not an evangelistic outreach AND there are rules about evangelizing and proselytizing are there not?

This is not the case as can be seen by the number of sects within Christianity.

Wrong. Jesus was more than clear that liars would call themselves believers to deceive many. Liberals would not try so hard to wipe away the real Jesus, if He was the lovey dovey "do whatever you want to" kind of god they want.

I am not going to agree with much of what anti-Christians present Wyvern. For lemmings you'll have to look at "all of the sects" on the left. They are in lock step with each on just about everything. Why would I want to march with berserkers?

[Wyvern]

I would bet they are wrong about the spirit of the law if it means that "do what thou wilt," is actually what they preach and teach, which, clearly it is. Jesus put many limits on many things. The liberal can writhe and scream about the word "limit," but loving God or your neighbor does not mean encouraging them to celebrate abominations.

Of course you would bet they are wrong, as far as you are concerned you are the only true christian and everyone else is plain wrong. But of course many others think the same exact thing. Whoever said the liberal version of the spirit of the law is do what thou wilt, other than you of course? You seem to have a problem differentiating between acceptance and celebration.

Once you get caught up in the wording and contradictions the love part tends to get thrown out.

"MY" point exactly.

Then why the slavish literalist take on the bible?

On an main note, this is a debate website and I have chosen my side. I do not desire to be a lemming and join in on the Christian bashing that goes on here as debate. I choose to bash back.

Ahh but you want everyone to be identical lemmings by following Christ in exactly the same way as you and I believe much of your anger comes from the fact that very few do.

I am not going to agree with much of what anti-Christians present Wyvern. For lemmings you'll have to look at "all of the sects" on the left.

Noone said you had to agree with them, however calling them all heretics and liars and lemmings merely sets up a confrontational atmosphere where neither side will budge from their views.

[micatala]

Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?

This question for debate makes the unfounded assumption that liberal beliefs are in general contradicted by the NT. There have already been examples provided showing this not to be the case. It seems to me the question should be split into two questions:

Are liberal beliefs contrary to the NT? IF so, which particular beliefs are contradictory to the NT?

Assuming a self-identified liberal holds views contrary to the NT, why would said person also self-identify as a CHristian?



In reference to quotes made by Bishop Spong:

The club-members of liberals all chant their approval of this completely anti-Christ declaration.

I bolded the all.



Lacking any evidence that all liberal Christians believe as Bishop Spong does, and having numerous examples of self-identified liberal Christians who do not share Spong's view, even here on this forum, this statement deserves to be called what it is, a lie.

[1John2_26]

Quote:
I would bet they are wrong about the spirit of the law if it means that "do what thou wilt," is actually what they preach and teach, which, clearly it is. Jesus put many limits on many things. The liberal can writhe and scream about the word "limit," but loving God or your neighbor does not mean encouraging them to celebrate abominations.

Of course you would bet they are wrong, as far as you are concerned you are the only true christian and everyone else is plain wrong.

Sometimes they are very easily proven wrong. I never hide from exegesis. My apologetics is sound. Straight from the source as it were.

But of course many others think the same exact thing. Whoever said the liberal version of the spirit of the law is do what thou wilt, other than you of course?

A rose is not a carnation. A rose is a rose. Liberals do not put much value in presenting error. They just let people they are supposed to love, just go on in their sins. Shouldn't at least an attempt be made to "save" the lost? Biblically speaking.

You seem to have a problem differentiating between acceptance and celebration.

Like I wrote, a rose is a rose. Sooner or later you muct tell a sinner (or any perosn) the Gospel accurately. Read it for yourself and see?

Quote:

Quote:
Once you get caught up in the wording and contradictions the love part tends to get thrown out.


"MY" point exactly.

Then why the slavish literalist take on the bible?

Faith in Jesus mandates a literal take on the Bible. Rememebr faith means trust, not a blind acceptance and celebration of those that will not change sooner or later. Jesus takes the Biblle literally. Adam and Eve, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jonah and all. Why should I misrepresent that wilfully? That would be being a liar. Something I strive earnestly not to be.

Quote:
On an main note, this is a debate website and I have chosen my side. I do not desire to be a lemming and join in on the Christian bashing that goes on here as debate. I choose to bash back.

Ahh but you want everyone to be identical lemmings by following Christ in exactly the same way as you and I believe much of your anger comes from the fact that very few do.

I believe Catholics are Christians and Baptists are Christians. I could worship comfortably in either congregation. I couldn't worship with Mormons or Anglicans. They give me the creeps.

Quote:
I am not going to agree with much of what anti-Christians present Wyvern. For lemmings you'll have to look at "all of the sects" on the left.

Noone said you had to agree with them, however calling them all heretics and liars and lemmings merely sets up a confrontational atmosphere where neither side will budge from their views.

Sorry. I believe in Christ Jesus as reality. It is very hard to point out to someone that they are willingly presenting something that they know is wrong and yet are presenting it anyway to deceive another person, and not be "confrontational. Jesus was not executed for partying with everyone. He was executed for pointing out how heretics were wrong, and calling people liars and worse. He was not executed for being a universalist.

Now of course we see the effort to disprove Jesus ever existed. I wonder why. Not really. Notice liberals are cool with the idea of Jesus just being a nice "idea," but nothing we really need to grasp as a reality. Hmmm, sounds very "adversarial" doesn't it . . ., to Christians.

"Ha Satan." Hebrew: The Adversary.

I not only enjoy people "testing what I present," it is mandated by the New Testament "faith" on which I believe by the facts presented in it. No ignorants in my Church building please.

Things are coming into focus hopefully.