I'll let you take that up with Danmark :FarWanderer wrote:I do not treat anything as a higher authority than my cognition. I grant authority by the final authority of my cognition.Volbrigade wrote: [Replying to post 136 by FarWanderer]
Of course.If so, are you not treating the bible as a higher authority than your own cognition?
Do you not treat a college biology book as a "higher authority" than "your own cognition"?
To borrow from C. S. Lewis -- a map of the coast of Japan as a "higher authority" than your experience of standing on the beach?
"the man on the beach may be dreaming, mentally addled, perceptually disabled, a liar, or just plain inaccurate for a variety of reasons."
[/quote]How about if microbes formed by design in a universe that has a cause, and proceded to morph into men over time, by guided, intentional processes?Volbrigade wrote:We shouldn't.And if not, why should we treat ideas like evolution etc. any different?
We should weigh the merits of whether or not microbes were formed by chance in a universe that has no cause, and then proceeded to morph into men over time, by mindless, accidental processes.
Any problems with that?
The problem, it seems to me, is that if that's the case, we're dealing with more of an omniscient, diabolical fiend, than a loving God. One who would purposely design a world in which millions of years of disease, death, carnivory, butchery, savagery, etc., took place BEFORE He brought forth the creature (Man) whom He would "ensoul" (as Long-Age compromisers maintain).
These factors would also apply to "pseudo-human" hominids, that were the penultimate steps before a fictional, poetic "Adam" emerged, in which God could put "the Divine spark".
The Biblical account that I accept as revealed, propositional truth from the Creator Himself (more below) says that sin and death entered the world through one man's -- Adam's -- disobedience (in concert with the deception of Eve), and spread, genetically, throughout the entire human race. That is necessary so that Redemption could likewise take place through the office of one Man, Jesus Christ.
The fault of organized, denominational Christianity for the last 200 years or so, has been its attempt to make the Biblical narrative fit the ever-changing popular "scientific" notions of the day.
We now realize more and more that God says what He means, and means what He says: and a straighforward reading of the Scriptures is moving perfectly in concert with our understanding of the world, in all areas (including the unique gravity situation during the first three days of creation, which would account for distant celestial objects to be removed by distance; but not time, in our mundane use of the term (i.e., the amount of time needed for light to travel from there to here, at its current measurable rate, as measured by clocks on earth).
"Sometimes Science seems to be in conflict with the Bible. But just give Science time -- it'll catch up."
[/quote]Who are we to "invite", exactly? The God of the bible?Volbrigade wrote:One can learn a great deal more about God by actually inviting Him in to your life, as the indwelling Holy Spirit.
[/quote]What's more likely to accurately reflect God's will? The universe God created, or books written by humans in his name? There can be no falsehoods, no misdirection, no distorting of the truth in creation itself- that I'm sure we can agree on. However, presupposing intention does not necessitate the bible being reflective of that intention, so how does the bible become the "word of God" in your mind? Reason? Presupposition? Which is it?Volbrigade wrote:But the fullest understanding possible in this world is by a combination of all three; by putting the Sovereign God foremost in all things.
I accept the Bible to be the revealed "word of God" -- "propositional truth" -- for a number of reasons, which taken together constitute a circumstantial case that is "beyond a reasonable doubt."
It starts with the fact that the 66 books, written by 40 (or more) authors, over a period of 1,700 years (or so), constitute an integrated message system that is thematically, idiomatically, and symbolically consistent (as alluded to in an earler post). That's enough to get one's attention.
It continues with the fact that its historical narrative is continually being verified as accurate, from an archeological perspective.
It also contains scientific insights that were far beyond the level of understanding of the non-Hebrew pagans, at the time of its writing (e.g., the hygienic practices of Levitical Law; the realization that Earth is a "circle" (properly, "sphere") that hangs upon "nothing"; Paul's allusion to our 4D space-time continuum in Eph. 3:18; many more). That there is nothing in scripture that conflicts with our scientific or historical understanding of the world; though in many cases it supersedes it, by introducing the interactions of the spiritual "metacosm" upon our finite "cosmos", by what we call "miracle").
There is its remarkable quality of describing a consistent, coherent story of Redemption, with the narrative beginning in the third chapter of its opening book, and continuing through to the last sentence of its last one (Revelation -- which cannot be properly understood without a thorough grounding in the Old Testament texts to which it makes dozens -- hundreds? (I'd have to check) -- of allusions.
That the entire story, front to back, tells the story of Jesus Christ; with countless allusions to His coming (in the Prophets, Psalms, and elsewhere); God Himself, in the form of a man, to undertake to undo the cosmic catastrophe of Adam's sin, and bring salvation from it to men.
That it records history in advance; including the precise day that Jesus would announce Himself to the Jews as their racial King.
That it records the history of, and promises to, a distinct ethnic group (the Jews) that God would "set apart" for the purposes of imparting His Law, and bringing forth Jesus by direct divine intervention (the Virgin Birth); that those people, and the record of that Law, are with us to this day, in an uninterrupted line, despite numerous attempts throughout history to eradicate them; and that the promise of their return to their ancestral homeland has been fulfilled in our time, setting the stage for the fulfillment of other promises which have not yet come to pass.
And, very intriguing to me -- and most controversial; I don't "hang my hat on it", but do find it edifying -- the fact that "God's fingerprints" are all over the the Biblical texts, in their original languages. That in addition to the "macrocodes" that it is replete with (e.g., the Flood being a portrait of salvation); it contains (perhaps unlimited, as yet undetected) "microcodes", utilizing the properties of gamatria in the original languages of Hebrew and Greek, as well as heptatic structures that are beyond any possibility of accidental occurrence.
These are some of the reasons that the Bible is "the word of God", in my opinion.