The Resurrection

[Sleepy]

I'm slowly working on this topic and have summarised some key aspects of this debate which are nicely truncated by the likes of Gary Habermas (the name should be familiar to all those who know of Anthony Flew) and some other authors. Let me first set the biblical and historical scene.

The eye witness accounts of the resurrection of Jesus.

- All the Gospels in the bible refer to the death and resurrection of Jesus. This miraculous event is the pivot on which all Christianity turns

- Paul a previous critic and opponent of Christians became a contemporary eye witness claiming that the risen Jesus appeared personally to him. This was corroborated by another NT author in Acts.

- Paul refers to an oral tradition in 1 Cor 15:3-8 which claims Jesus appeared to numerous others of his followers, this tradition is estimated to date back to the first two years after the crucifixion (pre-Paul). Paul made trips to Jerusalem to check out the consistency of his gospel teaching with those who knew Jesus (Gal 2:1-10). Paul confirms the consistency (1 Cor:15:11-15). Many other similar creedal messages are found in many of the sermons in Acts

- James the brother of Jesus had previously been a skeptic of his brother. Suddenly after the resurrection appearances (one of which was to him according to the creedal message), James becomes the pastor of the Church of Jerusalem.

- The empty tomb has not been successfully doubted, this adds some support to the claim that the disciples saw the risen Jesus being that those around them could not just point to the tomb where Jesus body was. Interestingly, the bible sites women as witnesses (something remarkable to do in a culture that would not have allowed female testimony in a court of law), if it was a made up story men would have been used to add credibility. Jerusalem would be the least likely of places to claim Jesus tomb was empty unless it actually was being that people there would know where the tomb was. Jewish leaders at the time did not dispute the empty tomb.

- The disciples lives all radically transformed after the supposed the resurrection of Christ even to the point of the majority being killed for their faith, some brutally so. This is often put down to them trying to start up their own lie, compared to suicide bombers. However suicide bombers actually believe the lies fed to them by others. In the case of the disciples, these men would have had to make up the lie and make it plausible enough to start up a faith in an area where the evidence would have otherwise said to the contrary. These men who then would have known they were preaching a lie are not likely to have died by numerous methods having never recanted their faith.

- We know medically that groups of people do not experience the same hallucination, likewise the same hallucination appearing to different people at different times is even more implausible. Isolated hallucinations do not change lives. Paul and Jesus brother James would not have had any reason to have made up this hallucination. Putting this down to some sort of mass delusion would be ignorant.

All these reasons suggest that the disciples truly thought they had seen the risen Christ.
This is accepted among most scholars including many skeptical scholars, Ehrman, Koester, Ludemann etc...

Either the most likely explanation is that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead or the disciples were all wrong.

To do this successfully a more plausible explanation should be found...

My Question for debate - What plausible explanation for what happened to the disciples and Jesus body is there?

Jesus didn't really rise from the dead. What really happened was _____.

[Cathar1950]

OK, take out the writings of Luke. What do we got?... I would bet a lot that the story of the Messiah is intact.

That is the problem it is a story.
The debate was not "does Luke tell the story of your Jesus the Messiah to the gentiles?" it is about contradictions and errors. So with all the, as some put it, gymnastics, "maybe" and "could be" when it get down to apologetics it is, "well the story is still there".

Like I said the bible believer is not capable of finding error or contridictions.

Goat said it right:

If we take out the story of Luke, what we do is take out the several of the contradictions between luke and matthew.

We take out the birth story, we take out the genelogy that has to be explained away,. We take out the some contradictions with the cruxifiction, and the resurrection.


I am sure that luke, mark and matthew were working off the same oral tradition.. they might have even used the hypothetical 'q'. It does appear that Paul's idea of the Messiah is different than Matthew/Mark/Luke.

[Easyrider]

Like I said the bible believer is not capable of finding error or contridictions.

And the heart-hardened infidel cannot discern the truth.

Goat said it right:

If we take out the story of Luke, what we do is take out the several of the contradictions between luke and matthew.

We take out the birth story, we take out the genelogy that has to be explained away,. We take out the some contradictions with the cruxifiction, and the resurrection.

I am sure that luke, mark and matthew were working off the same oral tradition.. they might have even used the hypothetical 'q'. It does appear that Paul's idea of the Messiah is different than Matthew/Mark/Luke.

All that is wishful thinking on Goat's part.

[Goat]

All that is wishful thinking on Goat's part.

And, of course, you are unable to counter any of my arguement. You have vast cut/pastes from a lot of people that don't really counter the arugemetn (Do you actually read what you post??), but you have not been able to counter the arguements.

[Easyrider]

All that is wishful thinking on Goat's part.

And, of course, you are unable to counter any of my arguement. You have vast cut/pastes from a lot of people that don't really counter the arugemetn (Do you actually read what you post??), but you have not been able to counter the arguements.

I've been busting your fallacious and myopic arguments for ages, but you don't answer mine with anything more than rhetoric.

Answer each of the arguments I presented to you on dating the book of Daniel. Answer my questions (which you've dodged for months now) on who your "god" is and the evidence for it. And then come back and talk to me.

[Goat]

All that is wishful thinking on Goat's part.

And, of course, you are unable to counter any of my arguement. You have vast cut/pastes from a lot of people that don't really counter the arugemetn (Do you actually read what you post??), but you have not been able to counter the arguements.

I've been busting your fallacious and myopic arguments for ages, but you don't answer mine with anything more than rhetoric.

Answer each of the arguments I presented to you on dating the book of Daniel. Answer my questions (which you've dodged for months now) on who your "god" is and the evidence for it. And then come back and talk to me.

And how is my refusal to be bullied by you 'rhetoric'. How is it relavent?

ANd, as far as I can see, you haven't busted even one of my arguements. You cut/paste from some web site, and proclaim victory without addressing the issue.

For example, you proclamed that there was that King Neb took Jerusalum in 605 bce, and your 'evidence' was a book quoting that he had victories in Syria.

Yet, there is no evidence of a seige of Jerusalum in 605. You just gleefully proclaimed victory, and ignored the evidence.

[Easyrider]

All that is wishful thinking on Goat's part.

And, of course, you are unable to counter any of my arguement. You have vast cut/pastes from a lot of people that don't really counter the arugemetn (Do you actually read what you post??), but you have not been able to counter the arguements.

I've been busting your fallacious and myopic arguments for ages, but you don't answer mine with anything more than rhetoric.

Answer each of the arguments I presented to you on dating the book of Daniel. Answer my questions (which you've dodged for months now) on who your "god" is and the evidence for it. And then come back and talk to me.

And how is my refusal to be bullied by you 'rhetoric'. How is it relavent?

ANd, as far as I can see, you haven't busted even one of my arguements. You cut/paste from some web site, and proclaim victory without addressing the issue.

For example, you proclamed that there was that King Neb took Jerusalum in 605 bce, and your 'evidence' was a book quoting that he had victories in Syria.

Yet, there is no evidence of a seige of Jerusalum in 605. You just gleefully proclaimed victory, and ignored the evidence.

Already answered in multiple posts.

Aren't you the one who was glad-handing your boy Wuntext, who claimed tribal individuals all had to be 100% blood related, only to find out when I busted you that in Jewish history that was not the case?

[Goat]

Already answered in multiple posts.

Aren't you the one who was glad-handing your boy Wuntext, who claimed tribal individuals all had to be 100% blood related, only to find out when I busted you that in Jewish history that was not the case?

Which of course, is totally irrelevant.. since the seed of David is of direct unbroken male line of David through Solomon.

Your attempts to show anything differently were vastly inadequate.

[Easyrider]

Which of course, is totally irrelevant.. since the seed of David is of direct unbroken male line of David through Solomon.

Why then does David call him "Lord" in Psalm 110:1? "The LORD says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."

If David calls him "Lord," how then can he be his son?

Only if he were divine like Jesus, the son of David, that's how.

Your attempts to show anything differently were vastly inadequate.

Tsk, tsk....

You still haven't made the connection, like many ancient Rabbis did, that the Messiah would be divine. Let's see what they said:

THE RABBINIC WRITINGS

For to us a Son is born, to us a Son is given: and he shall receive the law upon him to keep it; and his name is called from of Old, Wonderful, Counsellor, Eloha, the Mighty, abiding to Eternity, the Messiah, because peace shall be multiplied on us in His days. (Targum Jonathan)

What is the name of the King Messiah? R. Abba b. Kahana said: His name is "the Lord" [Heb: YHWH, Jehovah, Adonai], as it is stated, And this is His name whereby he shall be called, The Lord [Heb: YHWH] is our righteousness. (Midrash Rabbah, Lamentations 1:16)

In the Targum of Isaiah we read: "His name has been called from old, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, He who lives forever, the Anointed One (Messiah), in whose days peace shall increase upon us."

Pereq Shalom: R. Yose the Galilean said: "The name of the Messiah is Peace, for it is said, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Midrash Mishle, S. Buber edition: The Messiah is called by eight names: Yinnon, Tzemah, Pele ["Miracle"], Yo'etz ["Counselor"], Mashiah ["Messiah"], El ["God"], Gibbor ["Hero"], and Avi 'Ad Shalom ["Eternal Father of Peace"]

"Our Rabbis taught, the Holy One blessed be He, will say to the Messiah, the Son of David (may He reveal Himself speedily in our days), 'Ask of Me and I will give to Thee,' as it is said [Psalm 2:7-8]: 'I will tell of the decree; the Lord hath said unto Me, "Thou art My Son; This day I have begotten Thee, ask of Me and I will give the nations for thy inheritance." ' "

The Midrash reaffirms the view that Messiah is Gods Son when commenting on another messianic Psalm:

Rabbi Nathan said that God spoke to Israel saying, As I made Jacob firstborn, for it is written Israel is My son, even My firstborn" (Exodus 4:22), So also will I make Messiah My firstborn as it is written, " I will make Him My firstborn. (Commentary on Psalm 89:27 taken from Midrash Rabbah Shebot )

Rabbi Moshe Alshekh also confirms the messianic overtones of this prophecy (Zechariah 12:10 God speaking):

"I will do yet a thing, and that is, that they shall look unto me for they shall lift up their eyes unto me in perfect repentance, when they see Him whom they have pierced, that is Messiah, the son of Joseph; for our Rabbis, of blessed memory, have said that He will take upon Himself all the guilt of Israel, and shall then be slain in the war to make atonement in such manner that it shall be accounted as if Israel had pierced Him, for on account of their sin He has died; and therefore, in order that it may be reckoned to them as a perfect atonement, they will repent and look to the blessed One, saying, that there is none beside Him to forgive those that mourn on account of Him who died for their sin: this is the meaning of they shall look upon me." (Schwarz, "Dear Rabbi," p.10)
http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/messiah ... LORD%20God

And more:

"How can they (the three) be One? Are they verily One, because we call them One ? How Three can be One, can only be known through the revelation of the Holy Spirit."7

According to the Zohar, one day Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai was teaching his son Rabbi Eliezer about the mystery of the triune nature of God. He instructed his pupil by saying, "Come and see the mystery of the word hwhy, Jehova: there are three steps, each existing by itself; nevertheless they are One, and so united that one cannot be separated from the other."8

Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai indicates in another passage of the Zohar that these three steps as revealed in Elohim Myhla (God) are three substantive beings or three divine persons united in one.

The Ancient Holy One is revealed with three Heads, which are united in One, and that Head is thrice exalted. The Ancient Holy one is described as being Three; it is because the other Lights emanating from Him are included in the Three. Yet the Ancient One is described as being two. The Ancient One includes these two. He is the Crown of all that is exalted; the Chief of the chief, so exalted, that He cannot be known to perfection. Thus the other lights are two complete ones, yet is the Ancient Holy One described complete as one, and He is one, positively one; thus are the other lights united and glorified in because they are one.9

Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai wrote a fascinating passage recorded in the Zohar that is as clear a discussion of the mystery of the Trinity as you could find in any Christian theology text. Rabbi Simeon comments on the text found in Deuteronomy 32:39: "See now that I, I am he, and Elohim is not with me."10

He said: "Friends, here are some profound mysteries which I desire to reveal to you now that permission has been given to utter them. Who is it that says, 'See now that I, I am He?' This is the Cause which is above all those on high, that which is called the Cause of causes. It is above those other causes, since none of those causes does anything till it obtains permission from that which is above it, as we pointed out above in respect to the expression, 'Let us make man.' 'Us' certainly refers to two, of which one said to the other above it, 'Let us make,' nor did it do anything save with the permission and direction of the one above it, while the one above did nothing without consulting its colleague. But that which is called 'the Cause above all causes,' which has no superior or even equal, as it is written, 'To whom shall ye liken me, that I should be equal?' (referring to Isaiah 40:25), said, 'See now that I, I am he, and Elohim is not with me,' from whom he should take counsel, like that of which it is written, 'and God said, Let us make man.'"

Another book written by Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, known as The Propositions of the Zohar, records the mystery of the Shechinah glory of God in these words.

. . . the exalted Shechinah comprehends the Three highest Sephiroth; of Him (God) it is said, (Ps. lxii. 12), "God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this." Once and twice means the Three exalted Sephiroth, of whom it is said: Once, once, and once; that is, Three united in One. This is the mystery.11

Another famous Jewish scholar, Rabbi Eliezer Hakkalir, who lived at the time of Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, also taught the scriptural doctrine that there were three distinct Beings revealed in the one unified Godhead. In his commentary on Genesis 1:1, Rabbi Hakkalir wrote the following:

When God created the world, He created it through the Three Sephiroth, namely, through Sepher, Sapher and Vesaphur, by which the Three twywh (Beings) are meant . . . The Rabbi, my Lord Teacher of blessed memory, explained Sepher, Sapher, and Sippur, to be synonymous to Ja, Jehovah, and Elohim meaning to say, that the world was created by these three names.12

Rabbi Bechai, in his commentary on Genesis 1:1 (p. 1, col. 2) explained that the word Elohim Myhla is compounded of two words, Mh and la, that is, "These are God." The plural is expressed by the letter jod (y).

Another extraordinary reference to the Trinity is found in the Zohar :

Here is the secret of two names combined which are completed by a third and become one again. "And God said Let us make Man." It is written, "The secret of the Lord is to them that fear him" (Psalm 25:34). That most reverend Elder opened an exposition of this verse by saying "Simeon Simeon, who is it that said: 'Let us make man?' Who is this Elohim?" With these words the most reverend Elder vanished before anyone saw him . . . Truly now is the time to expound this mystery, because certainly there is here a mystery which hitherto it was not permitted to divulge, but now we perceive that permission is given." He then proceeded: "We must picture a king who wanted several buildings to be erected, and who had an architect in his service who did nothing save with his consent. The king is the supernal wisdom above, the Central Column being the king below: Elohim is the architect above . . . and Elohim is also the architect below, being as such the Divine Presence (Shekinah) of the lower world.13

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/chphnwr.htm

[Goat]

Which of course, is totally irrelevant.. since the seed of David is of direct unbroken male line of David through Solomon.

Why then does David call him "Lord" in Psalm 110:1? "The LORD says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."

If David calls him "Lord," how then can he be his son?

Only if he were divine like Jesus, the son of David, that's how.

Your attempts to show anything differently were vastly inadequate.

Tsk, tsk....

You still haven't made the connection, like many ancient Rabbis did, that the Messiah would be divine. Let's see what they said:

THE RABBINIC WRITINGS

For to us a Son is born, to us a Son is given: and he shall receive the law upon him to keep it; and his name is called from of Old, Wonderful, Counsellor, Eloha, the Mighty, abiding to Eternity, the Messiah, because peace shall be multiplied on us in His days. (Targum Jonathan)

What is the name of the King Messiah? R. Abba b. Kahana said: His name is "the Lord" [Heb: YHWH, Jehovah, Adonai], as it is stated, And this is His name whereby he shall be called, The Lord [Heb: YHWH] is our righteousness. (Midrash Rabbah, Lamentations 1:16)

In the Targum of Isaiah we read: "His name has been called from old, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, He who lives forever, the Anointed One (Messiah), in whose days peace shall increase upon us."

Pereq Shalom: R. Yose the Galilean said: "The name of the Messiah is Peace, for it is said, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Midrash Mishle, S. Buber edition: The Messiah is called by eight names: Yinnon, Tzemah, Pele ["Miracle"], Yo'etz ["Counselor"], Mashiah ["Messiah"], El ["God"], Gibbor ["Hero"], and Avi 'Ad Shalom ["Eternal Father of Peace"]

"Our Rabbis taught, the Holy One blessed be He, will say to the Messiah, the Son of David (may He reveal Himself speedily in our days), 'Ask of Me and I will give to Thee,' as it is said [Psalm 2:7-8]: 'I will tell of the decree; the Lord hath said unto Me, "Thou art My Son; This day I have begotten Thee, ask of Me and I will give the nations for thy inheritance." ' "

The Midrash reaffirms the view that Messiah is Gods Son when commenting on another messianic Psalm:

Rabbi Nathan said that God spoke to Israel saying, As I made Jacob firstborn, for it is written Israel is My son, even My firstborn" (Exodus 4:22), So also will I make Messiah My firstborn as it is written, " I will make Him My firstborn. (Commentary on Psalm 89:27 taken from Midrash Rabbah Shebot )

Rabbi Moshe Alshekh also confirms the messianic overtones of this prophecy (Zechariah 12:10 God speaking):

"I will do yet a thing, and that is, that they shall look unto me for they shall lift up their eyes unto me in perfect repentance, when they see Him whom they have pierced, that is Messiah, the son of Joseph; for our Rabbis, of blessed memory, have said that He will take upon Himself all the guilt of Israel, and shall then be slain in the war to make atonement in such manner that it shall be accounted as if Israel had pierced Him, for on account of their sin He has died; and therefore, in order that it may be reckoned to them as a perfect atonement, they will repent and look to the blessed One, saying, that there is none beside Him to forgive those that mourn on account of Him who died for their sin: this is the meaning of they shall look upon me." (Schwarz, "Dear Rabbi," p.10)
http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/messiah ... LORD%20God

And more:

"How can they (the three) be One? Are they verily One, because we call them One ? How Three can be One, can only be known through the revelation of the Holy Spirit."7

According to the Zohar, one day Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai was teaching his son Rabbi Eliezer about the mystery of the triune nature of God. He instructed his pupil by saying, "Come and see the mystery of the word hwhy, Jehova: there are three steps, each existing by itself; nevertheless they are One, and so united that one cannot be separated from the other."8

Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai indicates in another passage of the Zohar that these three steps as revealed in Elohim Myhla (God) are three substantive beings or three divine persons united in one.

The Ancient Holy One is revealed with three Heads, which are united in One, and that Head is thrice exalted. The Ancient Holy one is described as being Three; it is because the other Lights emanating from Him are included in the Three. Yet the Ancient One is described as being two. The Ancient One includes these two. He is the Crown of all that is exalted; the Chief of the chief, so exalted, that He cannot be known to perfection. Thus the other lights are two complete ones, yet is the Ancient Holy One described complete as one, and He is one, positively one; thus are the other lights united and glorified in because they are one.9

Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai wrote a fascinating passage recorded in the Zohar that is as clear a discussion of the mystery of the Trinity as you could find in any Christian theology text. Rabbi Simeon comments on the text found in Deuteronomy 32:39: "See now that I, I am he, and Elohim is not with me."10

He said: "Friends, here are some profound mysteries which I desire to reveal to you now that permission has been given to utter them. Who is it that says, 'See now that I, I am He?' This is the Cause which is above all those on high, that which is called the Cause of causes. It is above those other causes, since none of those causes does anything till it obtains permission from that which is above it, as we pointed out above in respect to the expression, 'Let us make man.' 'Us' certainly refers to two, of which one said to the other above it, 'Let us make,' nor did it do anything save with the permission and direction of the one above it, while the one above did nothing without consulting its colleague. But that which is called 'the Cause above all causes,' which has no superior or even equal, as it is written, 'To whom shall ye liken me, that I should be equal?' (referring to Isaiah 40:25), said, 'See now that I, I am he, and Elohim is not with me,' from whom he should take counsel, like that of which it is written, 'and God said, Let us make man.'"

Another book written by Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, known as The Propositions of the Zohar, records the mystery of the Shechinah glory of God in these words.

. . . the exalted Shechinah comprehends the Three highest Sephiroth; of Him (God) it is said, (Ps. lxii. 12), "God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this." Once and twice means the Three exalted Sephiroth, of whom it is said: Once, once, and once; that is, Three united in One. This is the mystery.11

Another famous Jewish scholar, Rabbi Eliezer Hakkalir, who lived at the time of Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, also taught the scriptural doctrine that there were three distinct Beings revealed in the one unified Godhead. In his commentary on Genesis 1:1, Rabbi Hakkalir wrote the following:

When God created the world, He created it through the Three Sephiroth, namely, through Sepher, Sapher and Vesaphur, by which the Three twywh (Beings) are meant . . . The Rabbi, my Lord Teacher of blessed memory, explained Sepher, Sapher, and Sippur, to be synonymous to Ja, Jehovah, and Elohim meaning to say, that the world was created by these three names.12

Rabbi Bechai, in his commentary on Genesis 1:1 (p. 1, col. 2) explained that the word Elohim Myhla is compounded of two words, Mh and la, that is, "These are God." The plural is expressed by the letter jod (y).

Another extraordinary reference to the Trinity is found in the Zohar :

Here is the secret of two names combined which are completed by a third and become one again. "And God said Let us make Man." It is written, "The secret of the Lord is to them that fear him" (Psalm 25:34). That most reverend Elder opened an exposition of this verse by saying "Simeon Simeon, who is it that said: 'Let us make man?' Who is this Elohim?" With these words the most reverend Elder vanished before anyone saw him . . . Truly now is the time to expound this mystery, because certainly there is here a mystery which hitherto it was not permitted to divulge, but now we perceive that permission is given." He then proceeded: "We must picture a king who wanted several buildings to be erected, and who had an architect in his service who did nothing save with his consent. The king is the supernal wisdom above, the Central Column being the king below: Elohim is the architect above . . . and Elohim is also the architect below, being as such the Divine Presence (Shekinah) of the lower world.13

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/chphnwr.htm

Do you always copy the articles you find intact, and not actually use your own words? Jeffery grant is misunderstanding the Jewish history.

If you are using the Psalms, I will have to point out that the Psalm of David 2:7 shows the David was the Son of God, and was begotten by him.

The development of looking at God as an increasinging familar father figure happened in the 2nd century bce. Before then, God was still a father figure, but his 'first born' was the nation of Israel.

The quote that Jeffery Grant has from the Zohar is a forgery by the way.
And no, there is no 'trinity' is Judaism.. That is a lie the missionaries tell.

[achilles12604]

Do you always copy the articles you find intact, and not actually use your own words? Jeffery grant is misunderstanding the Jewish history.

If you are using the Psalms, I will have to point out that the Psalm of David 2:7 shows the David was the Son of God, and was begotten by him.

The development of looking at God as an increasinging familar father figure happened in the 2nd century bce. Before then, God was still a father figure, but his 'first born' was the nation of Israel.

The quote that Jeffery Grant has from the Zohar is a forgery by the way.
And no, there is no 'trinity' is Judaism.. That is a lie the missionaries tell

I don't wish to get totally embroiled in this particular debate, but this truck my interest.

If the God of the Hewbrews intended to be one from the beginning until all time, then this passage is hard to explain.

"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Daniel 7: 13-14

Notice that the ancient of Days puts one like the son of man up to be worshiped.

Yet God is one.

14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Exodus 34:14


8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Deut 5: 8-10


7 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.

Deut 5 : 7






How do you reconcile these passages without reference to the Trinity?