Power in numbers

[Youkilledkenny]

Some people think that the more members a belief system has, the more likely it is to be true.
If so, can't the 'opposite' of that be true? In other words, if a belief system has a lot of 'former believers', does that make said belief less true?
In other words, is it a two-way street, or strictly a one-way boulevard?

[marco]

My understanding of history is that it is quite bleak and not much truth going on at all. Which parts give you confidence that the truth wins out. I believe that the truth will win on faith - but not on facts. Or to put it another way since God will win and God is truth then yes the truth will win.

History may be quite bleak but in respect of the variety of sources and people who accept accounts of many events, we have a reasonable approximation to truth. This is not the case in matters of faith. In Christianity there are umpteen versions and interpretations of the same events. And there are many faiths, each confident of their own truth. Thus truth derived from faith is demonstrably untrue, since we KNOW all faiths cannot be true. The big problem is finding which, IF ANY, has truth in it.

[liamconnor]

Some people think that the more members a belief system has, the more likely it is to be true.
If so, can't the 'opposite' of that be true? In other words, if a belief system has a lot of 'former believers', does that make said belief less true?
In other words, is it a two-way street, or strictly a one-way boulevard?

I haven't met people who think premise 1. Never.

Are there any on this forum who do? If so, please name them.

[historia]

Some people think that the more members a belief system has, the more likely it is to be true.

I haven't met people who think premise 1. Never.

Are there any on this forum who do? If so, please name them.

It appears that OnceConvinced has basically accepted premise 1 in his two posts above in this thread.

[historia]

Truth surely must be more profound and more of an influence than untruths. So if we look at the trends we can definitely make a judgement.

I disagree with this premise. But, for the sake of argument, let's continue.

For instance, supposedly a third of the world's population are Christian (although most Christians will argue it's a lot less as many of them aren't true Christians.) That means that more than 2/3s of the world's population does not believe in Christianity. This number is growing. The number of Christians is actually decreasing rapidly in may countries and that trend seems to be set to continue.

I'm afraid this assertion is simply mistaken. The best demographic data we posses today on religious adherence shows that, although the percentage of Christians may be decreasing in some countries, the percentage of Christians worldwide is actually increasing.

Further, that same data shows that, from 1970 to the present, the percentage of atheists and agnostics worldwide has descreased.

That would surely show that Christianity is not truth? Truth is surely more influential than that?

Since you have the numbers backwards, I have to ask: Are you prepared now to say that Christianity or Islam are true since they are growing in adherents?

It seems that the world is finally getting wise to the lies of Islam as well as Christianity. Is not the truth finally winning out and the majority, by rejecting them, representing the truth?

Again, you seem ignorant of the actual numbers here. By 2020, Christians and Muslims together will represent 57% of the world's population. That's an increase from 1970, when the two faiths comprised only 49% of the world's population.

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 14 by historia]



The Top 20 Countries Where Christianity Has the Highest Percentage Growth Rate

Not a single country from Europe, Northern America or Latin America makes the top 20 list


Nepal

China

United Arab Emirates

Saudi Arabia

Qatar

Oman

Yemen

Mongolia

Cambodia

Bahrain

Benin

Burkina Faso

South Sudan

Bhutan

Mali

Brunei

Guinea

Kuwait

Singapore

Turks and Caicos Islands

https://discipleallnations.wordpress.co ... e-fastest/

What characteristics do these nations have in common? Many are Muslim (or other religion) dominant nations. Most are not well educated / advanced / scientific cultures.

It appears as though Christianity is losing ground in advanced / educated / scientific nations and gaining in "backward" areas.

[historia]

It appears as though Christianity is losing ground in advanced / educated / scientific nations and gaining in "backward" areas.

I'm not sure what this is meant to demonstrate. How does this assertion relate to OnceConvinced's argument above or to my refutation of his points?

[JLB32168]

Some people think that the more members a belief system has, the more likely it is to be true.

To argue that is to commit an illogical fallacy - an appeal to popularity of an idea or argumentum ad populum.

At one time most people thought that the earth was flat. Clearly they were wrong.

[polonius]

It appears as though Christianity is losing ground in advanced / educated / scientific nations and gaining in "backward" areas.

QUESTION: Why do you think that is the case?

[OnceConvinced]

I'm afraid this assertion is simply mistaken. The best demographic data we posses today on religious adherence shows that, although the percentage of Christians may be decreasing in some countries, the percentage of Christians worldwide is actually increasing.

Further, that same data shows that, from 1970 to the present, the percentage of atheists and agnostics worldwide has descreased.

Please provide links to this data. How up to date is it? What is its source? Has population growth been taken into consideration?

The data I have seen recently shows otherwise.

[historia]

The best demographic data we posses today on religious adherence shows that, although the percentage of Christians may be decreasing in some countries, the percentage of Christians worldwide is actually increasing.

Further, that same data shows that, from 1970 to the present, the percentage of atheists and agnostics worldwide has descreased.

Please provide links to this data. How up to date is it? What is its source?

One of the primary sources of this data is the World Religion Database, published by Brill. It includes data from 1900 to the present, with projections out to 2050. It is the foremost authority on this type of religious demographic data. However, it also requires a subscription.

Luckily for us, however, several publicly available reports use this database as one of their sources, and even supplement it with additional data.

See especially the Center For the Study of Global Christianity's report Christianity in its Global Context, which was published in 2013, and includes comparative data between 1970 and today, with projections out to 2020.

The Pew Forum's Global Religious Landscape report, which was published in 2012, includes numbers from 2010. And its Future of World Religions report, which was published in 2015, includes projections out to 2050.

According to the CSGC report, the percentage of the world's population that identified as Christian in 1970 was 33.3% and by 2020 it will be 33.4%. Pew's numbers differ somewhat. They calculate Christians as 31.4% of the world's population in 2010, and project 31.4% (the same) by 2050 with a possible rise to 33.8% by 2100, if current models hold.

By comparison, the CSGC report has atheists and agnostics dropping from 19.2% of the world's population in 1970 to 10.7% in 2020. Pew tracks a broader category of people who are religiously "unaffiliated," which includes atheists and agnostics, but also people who believe in God but don't identify with any specific religious tradition. It calculates them as 16.4% of the population in 2010, dropping to 13.2% by 2050.

Has population growth been taken into consideration?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The Christian population is growing at, or slightly above, the world average population growth rate, while atheists and agnostics are below. But the bigger factor accounting for the drop in atheism and agnosticism between 1970 and today is the resurgence of Christianity in eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union and the continued rise of Christianity and other religions in China.

The even larger increase in the Muslim population over that same time period has skewed the percentage of the world's population that is Christian or non-religious downward, of course.

The data I have seen recently shows otherwise.

I suspect the data you are looking at is incomplete, then.

Now that you have more complete data above, and given your premise that the truth is more influential and should be reflected in population statistics over time, it would seem that you should conclude that atheism is not true and perhaps Islam is the most true. Right?


(Edited Jan 21, 2022, to correct broken link.)