Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus became King in 1914.

When do you believe Jesus became king?

JW

[tam]

What authority could Christ have received that could be more than ALL authority?

I don't understand the question, could you give some context to what you are asking?

JW

How could Christ have received more authority in 1914, when He said He received ALL authority almost 2000 years earlier?



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

How could Christ have received more authority in 1914, when He said He received ALL authority almost 2000 years earlier

Good question.

MATTHEW 28: 18
And Jesus came and said to them, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. - English Standard Version

Evidently Jesus, following his successful mission on earth was elevated to a higher position and given greater authority than he had enjoyed previously. The scripture pointed out that he was given ALL authority "in heaven and on earth". What would this include?

Jesus had been given command over God's heavenly army of hundreds of millions of angels. (1 Thessalonians 4:16; 1 Peter 3:22; Revelation 19:14-16) ; authority to bring to nothing all government and all authority and power that oppose righteous principles. (1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Ephesians 1:20-23), the authority to judge of the living and the dead (Acts 10:42) as well as resurrect all those in the memorial tombs (see John 5:26-28), in short Jehovah gave Jesus authority over everything that existed with the exception of Himself, God the Father.

Jesus was given ALL authority but obviously that could only EXERCISE that authority over everything that existed. Did the Messianic Kingdom EXIST in 33 CE when Jesus uttered the above words?

No. The establishement of the Messianic Kingdom, which comprises of Jesus and 144,000 co-rulers would be a FUTURE event, so at the time he was given authority over everything, that kingdom did not exist.

To illustrate: If a husband gives his wife ALL the keys to ALL his houses, would that include the keys to houses he hasn't yet built? The Kingdom was a house that hadn't been built yet, when it would be built, he would received the "keys" to that also.

Jesus was given all authorirty in the sense that he was given virtually unlimited authority and power. Logically however he could only EXERCISE authority (in this case rule as a king) over something that exists, thus He could only use his extensive power once said kingdon existed.

To mix my metaphors, a weight lifter has all the power in his muscles to lift any weight. Does he have the power/ the strength the authority to lift up his baby daughter? Yes of course. Can he actually exercise or exert that power before she is born? No. Why not? Because she doesn't exist yet!. Think of the kjngdom like Jesus newest baby. He could only lift her up when she was born

Jesus was given the power in 33 CE he exerted or USED the power (over the MESSIANIC kjngdom) when it came into existence in 1914


THE KINGDOM A FUTURE CREATION

Jesus was promised the Kingdom, and indeed promised to share that kingdom with his faithful spirit anointed "brothers" but that would be something that wouldn't start untill far into the distant future. Jesus indicated this when he was asked by his first century disciples, on the very same occasion as he explained he had been given all authority, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? He replied, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.". Effectively Jesus was telling his disciples that WHEN that kingdom would come (be established) was a future event fixed in time by The Father, which is why Jesus had instructed his followers to pray "Let your Kingdom COME".

Since it was natural that Jesus followers believe that that kingdom would come at the same time as Jesus received "all authority", Jesus gave several illustrations indicating that the two events were not simultaneous but would be separated by a long time.

The parable of the "Minas" is introduced in this way: "He [Jesus] went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. He said: A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return." Luke 19: 11-12 . In a parallel illustration of the TALENTS Jesus has the Master return "After a long time" (see Matthew 25:19). In the illustration of the wheat and the weeds (tares) Jesus states regarding these long awaited events "At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. " (Mat 13: 43 NWT)

CONCLUSION: While Jesus was given authority over all existing kingdoms, even "the kingdom of the son if his love" (which referred to the congregation of spirit anointed christians) God the Father, himself had fixed the time for the establishment of the Messianic kingdom government and that would be future to the events of the first century (compare Psalm 110:1). In short, Jesus would exercise "more" authority when his Father Jehovah created more things for him to have authority over.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES

[tam]

JW, the Kingdom was not established upon the earth in 33 CE... OR... in 1914; because Christ has not YET returned. But that does not mean the Kingdom does not exist. Only that it is not YET established (or restored to Israel) here on the earth.


Which it will not be until Christ RETURNS. Something He has not yet DONE.



But from your article:

Evidently Jesus, following his successful mission on earth was elevated to a higher position and given greater authority than he had enjoyed previously.

Yes. All authority (except over His Father, of course). As He said in Revelation,

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev 3:21

Sat down on the throne. Past tense. Already done... back when John was told to write to those seven churches.

Notice, he was given authority over everything that existed. Did the Messianic Kingdom EXIST in 33 CE when Jesus uttered the above words?

The underlined part is an ADDITION to His words.


But why assume the Kingdom did not yet exist, just because it was not yet established upon the earth (or yet restored to Israel)?


AND...

Even if the Kingdom did not yet exist (it did, or at very least, the start of that Kingdom did exist - by means of having a throne and a King sitting upon the throne of that Kingdom) would not ALL authority include over things that did not yet exist?

All... is all.

To illustrate: If a husband gives his wife keys to ALL his houses, would that include houses he hasn't yet built?

If a wife (or a son) is given all authority (and is the heir) to all that the husband (or father) owns, then that would include anything that has yet to be built or established, yes. Unless the wife is divorced, or the son disinherited. Neither of these things apply to Christ. There was nothing else that He had left to do. And He is KING over His servants (us who belong to Him).... meaning that YES, the Kingdom DOES exist.


And, in keeping with your illustration, the inheritance and authority would CERTAINLY include those things that were already under construction, yes?

Such as the Kingdom.

Jesus was promised the Kingdom, and indeed promised to share that kingdom with his faithful spirit anointed "brothers" but that would be something that wouldn't start untill far into the distant future. Jesus indicated this when he was asked by his first century disciples, on the very same occasion as he explained he had been given all authority, "“Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?� He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.". Effectively Jesus was telling his disciples that WHEN that kingdom would come (be established) was a future event fixed in time by The Father, which is why Jesus had instructed his followers to pray "Let your Kingdom COME".

Yes, let your Kingdom COME (within us, by means of holy spirit - and UPON THE EARTH, when Christ returns and establishes that Kingdom, and all the nations are gathered before Him.)

Since it was natural that Jesus followers believe that that kingdom would come at the same time as Jesus received "all authority", Jesus gave several illustrations indicating that the two events were not simultaneous but would be separated by a long time.

Okay...

The parable of the "Minas" is introduced in this way: "He [Jesus] went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return." Luke 19:11-12

Yes.

Note:

a) He is King BEFORE He returns and establishes the Kingdom upon the earth.

b) There is no mention of how long it will take before He returns, even after having been appointed King.

c) This (going to the distant country) happened at His death and resurrection, and He was appointed King then (hence, all authority). He just has not yet returned to ESTABLISH that Kingdom upon the earth.

d) He rules in the MIDST of his enemies.

He returns (after He gathers His own up for the marriage - in the spiritual realm) and establishes His Kingdom (of which He is already King over) at that time.

In a parallel illustration of the TALENTS Jesus has the Master return "After a long time" (see Matthew 25:19).

Yes. When Christ returns. This has not yet happened, or the Kingdom would be established, and the sheep and the goats would be currently undergoing their separation. Yes? But even the WTS states is a future event, yes?.

In the illustration of the wheat and the weeds (tares) Jesus states regarding these long awaited events "At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. " (Mat 13: 43 NWT)

Yes, again when Christ returns. Which has not yet happened.

CONCLUSION: So while Jesus was given authority over all existing kingdoms,

Existing is an 'added' word.

even "the kingdom of the son if his love" (which referred to the congregation of spirit anointed christians) God the Father, himself had fixed the time for the establishment of the Messianic kingdom government and that would be future to the events of the first century (compare Psalm 110:1).

The establishment of that Kingdom is STILL future.

But we both believe that Christ is King, now.



Peace again to you,
your servant, and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

JW, the Kingdom was not established upon the earth in 33 C

So my question is WHERE was the kingdom established and in what year?

[tam]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

Peace again, JW,

Not sure how that question was not answered in the post above.


your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

Peace again, JW,

Not sure how that question was not answered in the post above.


your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

No, it wasn't answered.


JW

[tam]

I said it has not yet been established, and you follow that up with 'but where was it established, and when was it established.'

Um... what?


The Kingdom will BE established here upon earth (where) when Christ returns (when).


(The Kingdom is within us already if Christ and His Father have made their home within us (by means of holy spirit - the anointing, and the deposit of things to come that Paul spoke of). And the Kingdom (by means of the King) was among the people when Christ was present in the flesh, because the KING was among the people.)

But He establishes (future tense) His Kingdom upon the earth (where) when he returns (when).


So yes, the questions were answered.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[bjs]

Jesus did not become a king. He always was one. He was, is, and always will be the King of all creation. In coming to earth he emptied himself and took the form of a servant, and at the end of his earthly life all authority in heaven and on earth was returned to him. However, as the One by Whom everything was created which has been created, there was no time at which he was not King.

I have never heard a Christians sing about how Jesus was “born to be king.� (There is a Queen song similar to that, but it was about Highlanders, not Jesus. There are a few songs that say that the children of God are born to be/become kings.)

There is a very popular Christmas song calling Jesus the “newborn king.� Notice that the lyric does not say that Jesus would become king, but that he was already king at his birth.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus did not become a king. He always was one. He was, is, and always will be the King of all creation.

If so, why did Jesus say the following?

MATTHEW 28:18
Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

LUKE 22: 29
I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom,

Surely if you are the supreme ruler of all creation, you can't be promoted... Further do you think Daniels vision has anything to do with Jesus? If not, who do you think the regards?

Daniel 7:13-14New International Version (NIV)
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

[bjs]

[Replying to post 18 by JehovahsWitness]

I noticed that you stopped quoting me after three sentences. If you read the fourth sentence I wrote then I think you will find my answer to your question.