How do we know Genesis was intended to be a metaphor?

[Justin108]

Other than our current understanding of science clearly contradicting Genesis, what reason is there to believe Genesis was written as a metaphorical account of creation?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 209 by JehovahsWitness]

You don't need to read my mind just open the book...


16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

[DanieltheDragon]

So if the stars were made prior to day 4( I don't see the biblical evidence for that) ...

There is plenty biblical evidence for that, most of which has been examined in the course of this thread.

JW

The part in parenthesis was to clarify my position you can ignore that.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 209 by JehovahsWitness]

You don't need to read my mind just open the book...


16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

My understanding is that this is not a bible quoting site. Just quoting a scripture and indicating that your point is so self evident no explanation is not helpful nor does it further the debate. In view of the above, it would be good if you feel so inclined to say what the scripture you quote is proving and how.

In short, I can only respond if you say what you think the scripture quoted means.


JW

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 213 by JehovahsWitness]

It doesn't matter what I think it means because I asked you what you think it means.

1. What were the stars doing before day 4?
2. Did their light reach the earth before day 4?
3. What does it mean when God put the stars in the firmament?

Those three questions are what I am asking. In relation to trying to figure out why you think the stars were created before day 4. Because thus far what your saying doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It doesn't add up. Hopefully if you can answer these questions it will add up.

[Zzyzx]

.

In short, I can only respond if you say what you think the scripture quoted means

Unless any scripture means exactly what it says, with words defined as they are commonly used (as per English language dictionaries), the scriptures mean whatever a person wants them to mean.

One person says Genesis is metaphorical, the next says it is partially literal and partly metaphor (or whatever), and another says it is literally true -- BUT none can show that their 'interpretation' (preference, opinion) is correct.

Christianity has produced 40,000 different 'official' interpretations (denominational differences) of the same scriptures.

[JehovahsWitness]

.

In short, I can only respond if you say what you think the scripture quoted means

Unless any scripture means exactly what it says, with words defined as they are commonly used (as per English language dictionaries), the scriptures mean whatever a person wants them to mean.

Well then explain what you want it to mean and I can respond with whether your desire corresponds with the words on the page.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

... trying to figure out why you think the stars were created before day 4.

Because the first verse of the bible says God created "the heavens and the earth" and the heavens (refering to the physical universe) includes stars, planets, etc. This was obviously prior to day four.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Is there no firmament in your bible?

Well Genesis 1:15 reads as following in various translations. I read many translations when studying and discussing scripture.

New Living Translation
Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth." And that is what happened.

English Standard Version
and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.� And it was so.

King James Bible
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
They will be lights in the expanse of the sky to provide light on the earth." And it was so.

International Standard Version
to serve as lights in the sky, and to shine on the earth!" And that is what happened:

GOD'S WORD® Translation
They will be lights in the sky to shine on the earth." And so it was.

World English Bible
and let them be for lights in the expanse of sky to give light on the earth;" and it was so.

Young's Literal Translation
and they have been for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth:' and it is so.

The bible says that God made(brought about)the stars and put them in the firmament on day 4.

Do you believe that when stars "come out" in the sky every night, they are literally being moved from elsewhere into the a place [area/space/expanse/firmament...] called "the sky"? ... and then in the morning the stars are moved literally away to elsewhere to be put back in the sky the next day?





What is the "firmament" spoken of in the Genesis creation account?
viewtopic.php?p=1066900#p1066900

[Justin108]

But as we have demonstrated, even with the various alternate definitions of "make" you provided, Genesis still contradicts proven science.

Yes indeed.

So you agree that Genesis does in fact contradict science?

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

"the bible is indeed truthful and not out of line with proven science."

Nonsense.

“11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.� And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.�
(Genesis 1:11-13)

“20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.� 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.� 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.� And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.�
(Genesis 1:20-25)

•535 Ma Major diversification of living things in the oceans: chordates, arthropods (e.g. trilobites, crustaceans), echinoderms, molluscs, brachiopods, foraminifers and radiolarians, etc.
•530 Ma The first known footprints on land date to 530 Ma, indicating that early animal explorations may have predated the development of terrestrial plants.[50]
•525 Ma Earliest graptolites
•510 Ma First cephalopods (nautiloids) and chitons
•505 Ma Fossilization of the Burgess Shale
•485 Ma First vertebrates with true bones (jawless fishes)
•450 Ma First complete conodonts and echinoids appear
•440 Ma First agnathan fishes: Heterostraci, Galeaspida, and Pituriaspida
•434 Ma The first primitive plants move onto land,[51] having evolved from green algae living along the edges of lakes.[52] They are accompanied by fungi[citation needed], which may have aided the colonization of land through symbiosis.
•420 Ma Earliest ray-finned fishes, trigonotarbid arachnids, and land scorpions[53]

•Seed ferns were the first seed plants, protecting their reproductive parts in structures called cupules.
•Seed ferns gave rise to the gymnosperms during the Paleozoic Era, about 390 million years ago.
•Gymnosperms include the gingkoes and conifers and inhabit many ecosystems, such as the taiga and the alpine forests, because they are well adapted for cold weather.
•True seed plants became more numerous and diverse during the Carboniferous period around 319 million years ago; an explosion that appears to be due to a whole genome duplication event

• Angiosperms evolved during the late Cretaceous Period, about 125-100 million years ago.
• Angiosperms have developed flowers and fruit as ways to attract pollinators and protect their seeds, respectively.
• In botany, a fruit is the seed-bearing structure in flowering plants (also known as angiosperms) formed from the ovary after flowering.
• The ancestors of flowering plants diverged from gymnosperms in the Triassic Period, during the range 245 to 202 million years ago (mya), and the first flowering plants are known from 160 mya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowering_plant
https://www.boundless.com/biology/textb ... 620-11841/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... ry_of_life
https://www.boundless.com/biology/textb ... 619-11840/


In the Genesis we have plants with flowers and fruits been created before animals.

Science shows animals were in the seas and land long before there were any flower and fruit bearing plants.

Therefore Genesis contradicts science.