Contradictory statements

[Zzyzx]

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Contradictory statements

Words attributed to Jesus by Luke and Matthew (whoever they may have been) appear to be contradictory (as well as perhaps irrational -- particularly those cited by "Luke").

Luke 14:26 If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets

Love your neighbor " but hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters (and yourself)?

Do unto others (hate them) as you would have them do to you (hate you)?

In psychiatry and psychology, maintaining two or more contradictory statements or positions is viewed as an indication of schizophrenia . . .

Do the statements quoted seem like wise words from a wonderful teacher / leader / preacher?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 80 by MuffMaYne]


[center]
Hate yourself, hate everything except for God[/center]

You have to be so head over hills for God that you're willing to let go of yourself, and or, your family/friends for Him(God). God has to be first in every and all things.

Hate yourself as much as you can for the love of God.
Makes a good case for religiously motivated suicide.

Wouldn't be the first time.

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 81 by Blastcat]

Well Love isn't constrained by anything so that I can't have love for myself, but more love for God.

I think a Good point to make would be that loving God would cause you to love others and yourself. If You Love God and God loves you and wants you to prosper, then you'll love yourself. If you love God and it pains God to see you sin, you wont, or will at least try not to sin.

So theres definitely a connection between loving God and loving others and yourself. It all kinda works together to form a cycle.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 82 by MuffMaYne]




[center]Some people have to learn to HATE in order to LOVE... others just know how to love.[/center]

Well Love isn't constrained by anything so that I can't have love for myself, but more love for God.

Hate whatever you want to hate, MuffMaYne.
I prefer compassion.

I think a Good point to make would be that loving God would cause you to love others and yourself.

So, you get to LOVING yourself by first hating yourself.
What a very odd technique.

If You Love God and God loves you and wants you to prosper, then you'll love yourself.

You said earlier that we should HATE ourselves.

make up your mind.

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 83 by Blastcat]

Love and compassion aren't mutually exclusive.

And no I'm not advocating hating yourself at all. I think you should re-read what I wrote. I was just pointing out that IF you take the verses in an ultra literal way they still don't contradict, but they aren't meant to be taken that way.

The verse does not literally mean hate yourself and family, its just saying love God more than all those other things (friends family and self).

And again I would suggest re-reading what I wrote. I wasn't saying you SHOULD hate yourself, I was simply pointing out that even IF it meant that, it still would not be a contradiction, but it doesn't mean to hate yourself and others.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 84 by MuffMaYne]

Love and compassion aren't mutually exclusive.

If you want to be loving and compassionate.. just do that.
If you want to hate, hate.

Some people think they need Jesus to help them decide.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 84 by MuffMaYne]

The verse does not literally mean hate yourself and family, its just saying love God more than all those other things (friends family and self).

I'm not aware of anyone who has even attempted to answer my question. Why is it that virtually all English translations of the Bible (at least of those on Biblehub) do NOT translate the verse in question as "love God more than your family"?
Instead, they all say "hate your father..."

To give an example of what I'm talking about, the following sentence "J'ai trente ans" means literally "I have thirty years" in English, when translated from French.
Of course, anyone who translates from French will NOT say that. They would say instead "I am thirty years old", even though the first word "J'ai" does not translate to "I am".
Ask any French-English speaker what "J'ai trente ans" means, and they will all say "I am".

So why is it that virtually Bibles written in English say "hate your family" for the relevant verse and not anything like "love God more than your family"?

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 85 by Blastcat]

I think that depends on what you see "love" as.

I mean sure, I can treat you nicely and respect you and all that, but anyone is capable of that. I do in a small sense agree with you, you don't need Jesus to be nice and loving toward someone if love is just that, being nice and respectful, tolerant, so on and so on. And in a sense thats love towards on another, human to human (Which is important. Very important.

For love towards God though you do need Jesus. and I think that love affects how you treat people. I'd like to believe I'd still treat people nice if I didn't believe ( I'll never know because thats a hypothetical) but my love for Christ does create another layer of it, it makes it better and takes it to another level. Not only is it love but not its unconditional (Not to say people who don't believe this are unable) I just now have a reason and a rationale for it. Theres a plethora of other reasons too but I don't wanna flood you with a wall of text as to "Why" He is needed.

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 86 by rikuoamero]

People use language in a way that kinda force through their meaning in way that if read literally wouldn't make sense, but its to force the point. "Its raining cats and dogs." We know that to not literally mean dogs and cats are falling from the sky.

I'm not arguing that the word HATE isn't used, from what I can tell its the correct translation, but within the context of the whole its not meant to be taken as treat them bad or with a hatred. He's trying to press home the point that God needs to be above all.

MLK gave a speech about why he was against he war in Vietnam and used the phrase "It's a dark day in our nation." He didn't literally mean it the forecast was there'd be an overcast that day, we all know and can and do accept that. The same kind of literary tool is used in the verse.

We recognize it immediately in just about any other kind of text, but neglect to in this case.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 86 by rikuoamero]

Why is it that virtually all English translations of the Bible (at least of those on Biblehub) do NOT translate the verse in question as "love God more than your family"?
Instead, they all say "hate your father..."

Ask MuffMaYne.. he is like the uber the king of bible translators

Maybe

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 87 by MuffMaYne]

For love towards God though you do need Jesus.

Really? Proponents of other religions, such as Judaism, or those not Abrahamic, would disagree. They have their own ideas about God, and loving God, and quite surprisingly, they don't seem to have a problem with loving God sans Jesus.

and I think that love affects how you treat people.

Citation needed. You'll have to show some statistics about loving God sans Jesus versus loving God with Jesus, and how both camps treat other people. Are Jews generally more peaceful and loving towards others than Christians are, for example? What about Christians versus Hindus?

but my love for Christ does create another layer of it, it makes it better and takes it to another level.

There are those on the non-Jesus side of the debate (not myself necessarily) who state the exact same thing about themselves, that they treat people better than when they were Christian.

Not only is it love but not its unconditional (Not to say people who don't believe this are unable) I just now have a reason and a rationale for it.

Some among my camp would ask why giving a person as a reason for why you treat others with kindness is somehow better than answering with something along the lines of "Being good for goodness's sake alone".
After all...what if it turns out Jesus never existed (not debating it here, just offering it as a hypothetical) and you find out about this? Will you stop treating people politely, since now your Jesus rationale is hollow?