Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

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JehovahsWitness
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Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jehovah's Witneses in Russia a facing an imminent ban which would criminalize all of Jehovah's Witnessses in the country as "extremists". Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide are presently conducting a letter writing campaign to protest this injustice.

What is your opinion of this move? Should Jehovah's Witnesses be banned from meeting to pray, read their bibles and sing spiritual songs together?

Do you think such a move could be envisioned elsewhere?

If you are non-religious, would you welcome such measures as a move to ultimately eliminate organized religion?



https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by- ... at-of-ban/

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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
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ttruscott
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Post by ttruscott »

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-suspends-jehovahs-witnesses-extremism-573536

In April, Russia’s Supreme Court will hear the Justice Ministry’s request to close the Jehovah’s Witnesses headquarters in the country and ban its activity, Reuters reports.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2017/march/russia-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-evangelicals.html

"A similar dilemma emerged in Russia in 2004, when CT reported how Jehovah’s Witnesses were banned from Moscow under the application of a 1997 religion law. Back then, religious freedom advocates warned that “many of the claims made about the Jehovah's Witnesses practices could also be made of other religious communities practices as well.�

Traditional Russian Orthodoxy continues to be increasingly conflated with a sense of Russian patriotism and nationalism, so many believe the government will keep pushing against the freedoms of minority faiths.

“A ban on Jehovah’s Witnesses is just the beginning in a series of repressions. Society needs an internal enemy to which the government can point in full cooperation with the Russian Orthodox Church,� Cherenkov said. “The silence of Protestants with regard to repressions against Jehovah’s Witnesses will merely unleash a new wave of restrictions and repressions.�"
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Tired of the Nonsense
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Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

I am opposed to placing any restrictions on the rights of people to believe as they choose. The Russians of course have a long history of seeking to control individual rights. Given how cozy Trump has been with the Russians there would seem to be some cause for concern.
Image "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post by OnceConvinced »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Jehovah's Witneses in Russia a facing an imminent ban which would criminalize all of Jehovah's Witnessses in the country as "extremists". Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide are presently conducting a letter writing campaign to protest this injustice.

What is your opinion of this move? Should Jehovah's Witnesses be banned from meeting to pray, read their bibles and sing spiritual songs together?


It depends whether their religion is real or not. If it's a cult/false religion, then this world would be better off without it. Banning it would make it more difficult for people to be lured into it. Surely people should want people to devote their time and efforts to real gods? To good gods?

It could be that Christians are standing up in unity in Russia and trying to remove what they consider to be a false religion. I would expect that Christians in unity would want to do that and SHOULD do that. It's up to true Christians to expose and remove the false ones, surely?

Perhaps Christians are leading the way in Russia and cleaning up their own yard which people have been asking them to do for a long time now? God should surely be able to weed out his false followers and show that his true followers, his true chosen are the ones we should be taking seriously?

JehovahsWitness wrote:

Do you think such a move could be envisioned elsewhere?


Perhaps the Russians are leading the way? Doing what's right by God? In the bible God weeded out false religions all the time. Why not now?

I would think that Christians would want unity amongst believers and that they would want to remove false versions of it. Perhaps this is evidence that JW is a cult? Perhaps other countries will follow suit by banning it and other forms of Christianity too, ones that are not deemed to be true Christianity?

JehovahsWitness wrote:
If you are non-religious, would you welcome such measures as a move to ultimately eliminate organized religion?
If the religion is true and real... if it were revolving around a REAL god that was a benevolent god, then I would want it to remain. I wold not want it eliminated.

It would be nice to be able to point out who the real god is, if there is such a thing. It would also be nice to be able to point out who the true followers of that god were. Let's remove all the false religions worshipping false gods, let's remove all the cults and let's have the ones that are real. I'm sure a real god could achieve that.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World of Fantasy

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 2 by ttruscott]


We will have to see what the future holds, we can but hope that the decision is in favor of freedom of religion and Russia chooses to respect the decisions of the European Court. The classic "first they came.." comes to mind.

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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post by Clownboat »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Jehovah's Witneses in Russia a facing an imminent ban which would criminalize all of Jehovah's Witnessses in the country as "extremists". Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide are presently conducting a letter writing campaign to protest this injustice.

What is your opinion of this move? Should Jehovah's Witnesses be banned from meeting to pray, read their bibles and sing spiritual songs together?

Do you think such a move could be envisioned elsewhere?

If you are non-religious, would you welcome such measures as a move to ultimately eliminate organized religion?



https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by- ... at-of-ban/

Image
I'm not necessarily in favor of it because some people truly seem to have a need to believe in a higher power. I get that. They can pick a religion to fill this need and hopefully keep it to themselves and other followers.

However, my opinion of the JW religion is that it is an obvious fraud religion that controls and brainwashes its followers and turns them into victims, so with that said, on one hand I would like to see the JW religion be discouraged, much like extreme Muslims, Heavens Gate or Branch Dividians. On the other hand, I don't want a government that dictates what you can believe (as long as the believers are only harming themselves). I don't like smoking either, but should a government dictate whether or not a person should be able to smoke themselves (a person's smoking in a restaruant is them not keeping it to themselves and that is different)?

I don't have anything against the people that become JW's, but like the Heaven's Gate cult, I don't exactly want it encouraged either. JW's, as you would know have a hard time keeping their beliefs to themselves. Could you imagine if the Heaven's Gate members sent people out door to door? Be Heaven's Gate if you want. Cut off your testicles and kill yourself if that is your desire, but for the love of life, keep it to yourself.

Religions are not a need that everyone has, so eliminating them has never been my goal. You wont buy the medicine (religion), unless you are first convinced that you are sick. My goal is to hopefully show people that they are not sick in the first place, therefore eliminating the potential need for medicine. However, if they are convinced that they are sick, they should be able to medicate all they want, but it would be nice if they didn't try pushing their medicine on those of us that are healthy.
You can build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, or you can set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible being’s wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post by OnceConvinced »

Clownboat wrote: On the other hand, I don't want a government that dictates what you can believe (as long as the believers are only harming themselves). I don't like smoking either, but should a government dictate whether or not a person should be able to smoke themselves (a person's smoking in a restaruant is them not keeping it to themselves and that is different)?
The problem is many smokers just don't care about those around them. All they think about is their own selves and many don't even care about the harm they are doing to their kids who have to breath in their smoke second hand. Many smokers think it's ok to smoke in their own homes, even though there are others like their own children around there breathing in their filth.

Many smokers spend hundreds of dollars on their habit and their children go without basic necessities because of their addiction. I know first hand of a girl who is not properly fed, clothed, looked after etc, because of her father who is a chain smoker and an alcoholic. The money that should go in to paying for his daughter's care goes in to his addictions instead.

It also costs the tax payer thousands of dollars when people need treatment for smoking related illnesses.

So surely there needs to be some legislation put in place to protect others who are affected by smokers?

Who protects us if not the government?

Likewise, if there is a religion, which is causing people to treat others in a negative way, eg, shunning others, persecuting, judging, even killilng etc. Who protects us from that? Who protects children from indoctrination into cults? Who protects people from wasting their lives on religious fantasies? Who prevents con artists from fleecing their congregation of tithes and offerings which go into funding their lavish lifestyles? (I'm talking about religions in general - none specifically)

Even worse, what if the religion they are in is a false religion which is angering some god somewhere. eg Allah for instance. Gods throughout history are known to unleash their wrath on entire cities due to people worshipping other gods and innocents are collateral damage. Who protects us from the wrath of those gods? Perhaps we need to have governments banning false religions so as not to anger the real gods?

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World of Fantasy

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post by 2Dbunk »

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]
What is your opinion of this move? Should Jehovah's Witnesses be banned from meeting to pray, read their bibles and sing spiritual songs together?
As much as I loathe door-to-door salesmanship of religion, I think the way freedom of religion is protected in America has been the gold standard (maybe not so much today because of the growing tumor of school vouchers channeling money to religious oriented education). There is no question that ALL religions (including cults) have benefitted from the protective cover of our Constitution. Whether someone wants to cut his testicles off, disembowel a goat or chase a comet is his privilege so long he does it on his own dime and not near any of the places I frequent.
Do you think such a move could be envisioned elsewhere?
Oh, yeah. It's on its way to this country. With the erosion of separation church and state (as I mention above), religions will claw and scrap until one claims domination -- then, lookout.
If you are non-religious, would you welcome such measures as a move to ultimately eliminate organized religion?
As a liberal Democrat Atheist it goes against my grain to suppress ANY free speech. We once had freedom of religion across the board for a short time, then for some not-so-arcane reason the Congress needed chaplains (doesn't help much, does it?). For ninety years we survived and won our war for independence, the War of 1812 and the turning point of our Civil War without the need of stamping a supplication to God on our filthy coinage (3 cent piece -- as a prototype mind you).

No. I say all the blather about goodness and "God" should be out there for all the rest of us to lampoon. Even though erosion is occurring, it makes for interesting pastime (the next four years are going to be a blast!).;):(
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Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post by JehovahsWitness »

INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 9 by JehovahsWitness]

A lot of this has to do with the internal politics of Russia. Over the past few years Russia has been devestated by economic sanctions. Putin's response has been to demonize groups and induce tribalism. First it was the LGBT communities and now it's Jehovah's witnesses.

The classic "first they came.." Phrase rings true indeed except I don't think I heard any JWs saying it was wrong for Putin to persecute the LGBT community....
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