The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Neatras
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Post #61

Post by Neatras »

I recommend this thread be locked. There is no actual substance here, just a weak presupposition that a deity is responsible, and the tired respondents who point out that such assertions are themselves baseless.

Apophenia aside, Volbrigade is not articulating a reason for why he should be taken seriously, except by yet more special pleading. There are no ways to argue against such firmly biased opinions. In fact, I already pointed out that this thread doesn't serve a purpose as a scientific debate thread, and those with some comprehension of what a debate actually is should be able to see this to be the case.

This is better served in the General Chat sub-forum, where we can formally dissect Volbrigade's psychological tendency to dismiss the notion of coincidence out of a presuppositional bias, rather than with formal logic.

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Post #62

Post by Wootah »

Volbrigade wrote:
H.sapiens wrote: [Replying to post 56 by Volbrigade]

Respond to that? I suspect that you can not. It is never uncivil to point out an obvious truth.
Precisely why your post is uncivil.
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Justin108
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Re: The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Post #63

Post by Justin108 »

Volbrigade wrote: Opinion duly noted.

Of course, it is an erroneous opinion, since God is the uncaused Cause, the limitless Creator of our limited space-time environment. Therefore nothing -- whether anyone designates it "remarkable" or not -- can happen without, or apart from, Him.
Prove it.
Volbrigade wrote: Because without God, there is NOTHING.
Prove it.
Volbrigade wrote: But there IS something -- ergo, God.
Prove it.

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Re: The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Post #64

Post by Bust Nak »

Volbrigade wrote:
Volbrigade wrote:

LOL. To each his own, I guess. I admit, I'd be pretty impressed if a monkey banging on a laptop keyboard produced "War and Peace".
More impressed than Leo Tolstoy writing it, right?
Well, sure. Because like amino acids randomly assembling themselves into proteins, which then assemble themselves into an information code which writes for a living cell (absent a living cell to provide a wall of protection for the event) -- it just couldn't happen by chance.

And neither does a solar eclipse.
You seem to be treating the phrase "by chance" as a synonyms for "naturally," why?

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Re: The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Post #65

Post by Monta »

Justin108 wrote:
Volbrigade wrote: Opinion duly noted.

Of course, it is an erroneous opinion, since God is the uncaused Cause, the limitless Creator of our limited space-time environment. Therefore nothing -- whether anyone designates it "remarkable" or not -- can happen without, or apart from, Him.
Prove it.
Volbrigade wrote: Because without God, there is NOTHING.
Prove it.
Volbrigade wrote: But there IS something -- ergo, God.
Prove it.
Nature is the mirror image of God who has left many footprints for the seeker.

Others will not be convinced for they have already made up their mind.

Justin108
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Re: The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Post #66

Post by Justin108 »

Monta wrote:
Justin108 wrote:
Volbrigade wrote: Opinion duly noted.

Of course, it is an erroneous opinion, since God is the uncaused Cause, the limitless Creator of our limited space-time environment. Therefore nothing -- whether anyone designates it "remarkable" or not -- can happen without, or apart from, Him.
Prove it.
Volbrigade wrote: Because without God, there is NOTHING.
Prove it.
Volbrigade wrote: But there IS something -- ergo, God.
Prove it.
Nature is the mirror image of God who has left many footprints for the seeker.

Others will not be convinced for they have already made up their mind.
The universe does not need a creator in order to exist.

Others will not be convinced for they have already made up their mind that there is a creator.

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Re: The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Post #67

Post by Volbrigade »

Bust Nak wrote:
Volbrigade wrote:
Volbrigade wrote:

LOL. To each his own, I guess. I admit, I'd be pretty impressed if a monkey banging on a laptop keyboard produced "War and Peace".
More impressed than Leo Tolstoy writing it, right?
Well, sure. Because like amino acids randomly assembling themselves into proteins, which then assemble themselves into an information code which writes for a living cell (absent a living cell to provide a wall of protection for the event) -- it just couldn't happen by chance.

And neither does a solar eclipse.
You seem to be treating the phrase "by chance" as a synonyms for "naturally," why?
Because unless something happens deliberately, then it happens "by chance". If you and a friend arrange to meet for lunch, then your meeting is deliberate. If you happen to come across each other at the grocery store, then it is "by chance".

For something to be deliberate, it requires volition. Volition, in turn, requires intelligence. And intelligence requires a mind, which is an aspect of personality.

Ergo -- either the natural universe is the product of mindless, unguided processes; and thus everything is "by chance" (including this conversation) --

Or it is the product of a Mind, expressing its volition in design elements.

There is no possibility that either the kinds of intricate design we see in living things, or the living things themselves (i.e., the assembly of the components of reproducing cells -- DNA, enzymes, etc.) could have occurred "by chance".

And neither is the precise "fit" of the sun and moon that many of us will observe later today.

Let me anticipate one possible objection to my statement.

It might be said -- "what about the deliberate action involved with a spider weaving a web? Does that express "volition"? "Mind"?

To which I would answer "yes".

But not the spider's.

Rather, the Designer's.

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Re: The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Post #68

Post by Bust Nak »

Volbrigade wrote: Because unless something happens deliberately, then it happens "by chance". If you and a friend arrange to meet for lunch, then your meeting is deliberate. If you happen to come across each other at the grocery store, then it is "by chance"...
What if you go to the grocery store every Wednesday at noon and your friend also goes to the grocery store every Wednesday at noon. It's not random that you meet each other, yet neither planned to meet up deliberately. It seems rather trivial to me that the dichotomy you presented is a false one.

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Re: The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Post #69

Post by Justin108 »

[Replying to post 54 by Volbrigade]

Justin108 wrote:
Volbrigade wrote: Opinion duly noted.

Of course, it is an erroneous opinion, since God is the uncaused Cause, the limitless Creator of our limited space-time environment. Therefore nothing -- whether anyone designates it "remarkable" or not -- can happen without, or apart from, Him.
Prove it.
Volbrigade wrote: Because without God, there is NOTHING.
Prove it.
Volbrigade wrote: But there IS something -- ergo, God.
Prove it.
Nothing? Ok

Volbrigade
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Re: The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

Post #70

Post by Volbrigade »

Bust Nak wrote:
Volbrigade wrote: Because unless something happens deliberately, then it happens "by chance". If you and a friend arrange to meet for lunch, then your meeting is deliberate. If you happen to come across each other at the grocery store, then it is "by chance"...
What if you go to the grocery store every Wednesday at noon and your friend also goes to the grocery store every Wednesday at noon. It's not random that you meet each other, yet neither planned to meet up deliberately. It seems rather trivial to me that the dichotomy you presented is a false one.
I'm not particularly interested in what is, and is not, trivial to you. And that is by design. ;)

And so are two (or more) people deliberately going to the same destination on a regular basis.

Ever had a job? Gone to school?

Church?

8-)

The point is, either this world is the product of a designer, or it is mindless, random, by chance, pointless, and meaningless.

I submit that the designer option is self-evident and axiomatic.

And that the only reason to choose the latter, is out of a deliberate, volitional need to deny the former.

Which, itself, is an ironic instance of design and volition.

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