The Fate of Nonbelievers

[myth-one.com]

Christians believe the Bible to be inspired by God. If so, true Christian theology will be found in the Bible. Likewise, theology which cannot be found in the Bible is not true Christian theology. Participants in this topic will debate the eternal fate of nonbelievers -- as written in the Bible! Nonbelievers will be defined as anyone who does not believe in Jesus -- regardless of their age, intelligence, or any other factor! One's input is valuable only if supported by the Bible. Whether or not one actually believes the Bible to be true is inconsequential! No preference will be given based on religious beliefs, faith, denominations, etc. We will attempt to jointly and finally agree as to what the Bible states believers will be saved from! It will be a learning experience, with no preaching or attempts at "saving" anyone. Hopefully we can save human lives and reduce irrational fears! I encourage all to participate!

As a starting point. This is what I claim the Holy Bible states as to the fate of nonbelievers: (Click on any item below for a full biblical defense of that claim.)

2. The Bible defines two body types, natural and spiritual. God and the angels are spiritual bodied beings, while all other beings are physical. The main difference between the two types is longevity. Spiritual bodies are immortal, while natural bodies will perish. Also, pain is necessary for natural bodies to recognize when they're in harm's way. Spirits are indestructible, and thus need no pain.
3. Two separate and distinct physical deaths may befall mankind, but only the first death is a certainty. Every human will die the first death.
4. And every human who suffers their first death will be resurrected. Those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be resurrected to everlasting life.
5. But there will be an order to the resurrections. Christ was resurrected first. All dead believers will be resurrected at the second Coming of Christ, and all nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming.
6. All Christians living at the time of the Second Coming will be changed into spiritual beings and meet Christ in the air.
7. At this time, there will be no living human Christians. All will have been born again of the Spirit as spiritual children of God. They will then spend the thousand year Millennium with Christ.
8. Following the Millennium, all dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and face judgment. Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and instantly perish -- being human. This is their second and everlasting death. They have opted out of life for all eternity.
9. But their names were not written into the Book of Life prior to their judgment! Everyone with their names written in the Book of Life were born again into the spiritual Kingdom of God at the Second Coming. The Book of Life was cleared at that time. So why check it again?
10. The only possible reason is that nonbelievers will have the opportunity to accept salvation during the judgment process! The blank Book of Life is reopened at the beginning of judgment so that names may be written into it. The names written into it will be names of nonbeliever who repent and accept Jesus as their Savior during their judgment.

Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Consequences: No humans will suffer eternally in the lake of fire. Distraught parents who murder their children in their innocent years in an effort to send them to heaven as they have been taught -- have been deceived! Likewise, the millions of deceived Christians who constantly worry about their unsaved family and loved ones being eternally tortured in the fires of hell can now chill out.

Click here to view the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" and supporting biblical evidence as resolved by debaters under this thread.

I will modify attachments linked to from this post as we debate the issue and find corrections or improvements! Hopefully, we will be led to a good result!

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 323 by onewithhim]

Also, all scripture has to harmonize with other scripture. (I can't see how I Peter 3:18 and I Corinthians 15:45 could be taken any other way than that Christ was raised as a spirit person.) Therefore, there must be other meanings to the verses in question (in your post), rather than Jesus was raised back to human life.

Yes, we do need to aim for the best harmonization of scripture.

In this case, what we should seek to harmonize with is Paul calling Jesus a man, not once but four times.

As to those two verses, consider this from Barnes' Notes on the Bible:

The word "spirit" is applied to his exalted spiritual nature, in distinction from his human nature, in Romans 1:4; 1 Timothy 3:16; 1 Peter 3:18. The apostle does not here affirm that he had not a human nature, or a vital existence as a man; but that his main characteristic in contradistinction from Adam was, that he was endowed with an elevated spiritual nature, which was capable of imparting vital existence to the dead.

3) I Timothy 2:5 mentions "the man" Christ Jesus. This term could be merely referring to the fact that Jesus was a male person, though not necessarily human.

From the one who wrote this?

Galatians 3:

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Not a chance!

[liamconnor]

What exactly is the original Q for D of this thread?

The OP does not make it clear, and the latest posts do not seem even near target.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 326 by Checkpoint]


"Quote:
Galatians 3:

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Not a chance!"

What do you mean by that?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 326 by Checkpoint]


"Quote:
Galatians 3:

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Not a chance!"

What do you mean by that?

Refer to my post #326 and see what you quoted in its context.

Not a chance of Paul meaning in 1 Timothy 2:5 what onewithhim suggested.

[myth-one.com]

What exactly is the original Q for D of this thread?

The OP does not make it clear, and the latest posts do not seem even near target.

Participants in this topic will debate the eternal fate of nonbelievers -- as written in the Bible! Nonbelievers will be defined as anyone who does not believe in Jesus -- regardless of their age, intelligence, or any other factor! One's input is valuable only if supported by the Bible. Whether or not one actually believes the Bible to be true is inconsequential! No preference will be given based on religious beliefs, faith, denominations, etc. We will attempt to jointly and finally agree as to what the Bible states believers will be saved from! It will be a learning experience, with no preaching or attempts at "saving" anyone. Hopefully we can save human lives and reduce irrational fears! I encourage all to participate!

Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

The Fate of Nonbelievers and supporting biblical evidence as resolved by debaters under this thread.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 330 by myth-one.com]

Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Those in favor?

Those against?

Why?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 330 by myth-one.com]

Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Those in favor?

Those against?

Why?

Excellent point!.

The initial conclusion was totally mine based on scriptures I quoted.

Click here for the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" and supporting biblical evidence as resolved by debaters under this thread.

I can maintain and change the current "Fate of Nonbelievers."

I haven't seen any good evidence provided to justify any changes.

I do remember that I was going to make something more clear based on something JehovahsWitness suggested.

Anyone can challenge any points, scriptures, or "interpretations," in the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" at
any time.

That's the purpose of this thread.

Yes, it would be great to know how many are in favor or oppose the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" document, and why.

[JP Cusick]

Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Those in favor?

Those against?

Why?

The correct and factual answer was given a long time ago in my comment #2 of this thread, and everything after that has been nothing but senseless babbling and waste of time.

The text as follows:

The correct doctrine from the Bible is that the "Lake of fire" is a place of cleaning and purification.

No one goes to any place of torment, and the real torment is here and now in this evil lifetime.

See here:
" If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. " 1 Corinthians 3:15

The sins are burned while the sinners get saved.

As such every person gets saved and not even one (1) gets left out or lost.

As to the second death - the Apostle Paul declares that to be death to sin, see "dead to sin" Romans 6:2-11

Some few people die to sin in this lifetime, while most people have the second death (death to sin) later at the time of Judgment.

It is a great plan of eternal salvation for all.

[myth-one.com]

Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Those in favor?

Those against?

Why?

The correct and factual answer was given a long time ago in my comment #2 of this thread, and everything after that has been nothing but senseless babbling and waste of time.

The text as follows:

The correct doctrine from the Bible is that the "Lake of fire" is a place of cleaning and purification.

No one goes to any place of torment, and the real torment is here and now in this evil lifetime.

See here:
" If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. " 1 Corinthians 3:15

The sins are burned while the sinners get saved.

As such every person gets saved and not even one (1) gets left out or lost.

These verses are in a letter addressed to the Christians at Corinth -- not all humanity!

Here they are in context:

8 Now he (the Christian) that planteth and he (the Christian) that watereth are one: and every (Christian) man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we (Christians) are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Knowing that these verses refer to Christians only, look again at verses 14-15:

14 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If any Christians's work abides which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any Christian's work shall be burned, he shall suffer the loss of his work: but he himself shall be saved.

Paul is saying that all believers in Christ will be saved -- not all humanity.

Here is how Jesus put it:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Whosoever believeth will be saved -- regardless of the success of their other works.

It is a great plan of eternal salvation for all.

Yes, it is a great plan of salvation.

But all will not necessarily be saved.

[JP Cusick]

But all will not necessarily be saved.

It is only your self and people like you who are trying to shut the gates of God to other people.

It is not being done in 1st Corinthians and not anywhere in the Bible, and God does not shut anyone out.

So you are misguided, and you do a great injustice by trying to shut people out while the truth of God is for all of humanity.

The fires-of-God are applied to every person, and the second death as death to sin applies to everyone.

On the Judgment Day you are in for a really big surprise, because you will never again be shutting the gates of God onto His children.