Did Christ have free will?

[brianbbs67]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

[paarsurrey1]

That Jesus obeyed the Father does not in any way take away His free will to choose otherwise.

I agree with one. When Jesus was chosen a prophet/messenger of One-True-God by Him, Jesus had already on his free-will became a "submitter to God" or a Muslim in this sense. Jesus expressed that he was one with God, on his free-will, never forced by God. Had Jesus not obeyed God's commandment, he would have suffered like Jonah, to Jonah he himself pegged. Right, please?

Regards

[EBA]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

Hi brianbbs67,

No, I believe Jesus had about as much free will as we do which is none.

Peace

[brianbbs67]

I believe, Christ, like us is free to choose, but by his devotion to the Father would have and did only chose the Father's will. We all can go against God's will. I know i have. I have paid the consequences too. Other times, no consequence .

In short we are truly free to chose as we wish. God always has a work around. He made this game. He doesn't need our help , but likes it. If you made something, wouldn't you be master of it?

[Divine Insight]

You are claiming that Jesus could have failed - and it is Jesus His self who declares that you are wrong.

I am not claiming that Jesus could have failed. To the contrary, I'm pointing out precisely the opposite. Failure was not an option. Therefore Jesus could not possibly have failed. And therein lies the problem.

[EBA]

I believe, Christ, like us is free to choose, but by his devotion to the Father would have and did only chose the Father's will. We all can go against God's will. I know i have. I have paid the consequences too. Other times, no consequence .

Hi brianbbs67,
No, i dont think you have ever gone against God's will.

I know, O LORD , that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps. Jer 10:23

In short we are truly free to chose as we wish.

A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. (Pro 16:9)

The fact that we have to make a choice should prove that we do not have free will.

God always has a work around. He made this game. He doesn't need our help , but likes it.

God is not running "damage control" from his throne; God is in total control.

If you made something, wouldn't you be master of it?

Yes he certainly is. God Bless!

[2timothy316]

God is not running "damage control" from his throne; God is in total control.

"We know that we are of God, and the whole world is under the sway of the evil one." 1 John 5:19 (HCSB)

Total control? Is God the 'evil one' in the above scripture?
Or is the scripture above true? Are there those under sway of God and those that are under sway of the evil one?

From what I read in the Bible God lets people either follow Him or follow something else and only steps in when the people that follow Him are about to completely wiped off the Earth. The Hebrew scriptures is full of that kind of example. Starting with the Great Flood followed by the attempted genocide in Egypt. That is just to name two. Then if we read the books by the major and minor prophets we read how Israel itself turned murderous toward it's own righteous people. Over and over God had to step in to do damage control to save the line of David.

The allowance of free choice is not a question of power or control. We all know He has the power to do that. It's answering the question who as the right to rule. The Almighty Jehovah God, some other god or mankind. To be able to choose one we must have the freedom of choice.

[JP Cusick]

No, I believe Jesus had about as much free will as we do which is none.

The fact that we have to make a choice should prove that we do not have free will.

The opposite of free will is will power.

Jesus proved to have supreme will power, and Jesus rejected free will.

People are under control as like sheep to the slaughter, so very few people have the ability to really gain some free will in a positive way, and will power needs to be made very strong with determined faith.

I agree with you that the concept of making choices and having option is not the same as free will.

[EBA]

"We know that we are of God, and the whole world is under the sway of the evil one." 1 John 5:19 (HCSB)

Total control? Is God the 'evil one' in the above scripture?
Or is the scripture above true? Are there those under sway of God and those that are under sway of the evil one?

Yes the verse is truth.

No he is not the “evil one� in the above scripture.

Here is what God tells us though:

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.(Isa 45:6-7

Do you believe God created Satan?

From what I read in the Bible God lets people either follow Him or follow something else and only steps in when the people that follow Him are about to completely wiped off the Earth. The Hebrew scriptures is full of that kind of example. Starting with the Great Flood followed by the attempted genocide in Egypt. That is just to name two. Then if we read the books by the major and minor prophets we read how Israel itself turned murderous toward it's own righteous people. Over and over God had to step in to do damage control to save the line of David.

It sounds like you believe we have free will until God needs to “step in.�

I know, O LORD , that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps. (Jer 10:23)

The allowance of free choice is not a question of power or control. We all know He has the power to do that. It's answering the question who as the right to rule. The Almighty Jehovah God, some other god or mankind. To be able to choose one we must have the freedom of choice.

We do have a will and we can make choices, but our will can change instantly based on the choices we make. And the choices we make are due to circumstances we face on a daily basis.

Peace.

[2timothy316]

"We know that we are of God, and the whole world is under the sway of the evil one." 1 John 5:19 (HCSB)

Total control? Is God the 'evil one' in the above scripture?
Or is the scripture above true? Are there those under sway of God and those that are under sway of the evil one?

Yes the verse is truth.

No he is not the “evil one� in the above scripture.

Here is what God tells us though:

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.(Isa 45:6-7

Do you believe God created Satan?

God didn't create Satan as evil. Satan once was one of God's spiritual sons but forsook his place in Heaven. An angel of high position. Until he choose to be unrighteousness. (Ezekiel 28:14-17)

Evil is not the opposite of peace and thus why I don't agree with that translation. A proper translation would be 'calamity' not evil. As 'calamity' or 'disaster' is the opposite of peace. Many of these translations have it right. http://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm

“The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice.�—Deut 32:4.
If God creates evil then this scripture is a lie. If God creates evil how is that acceptable? This makes God out to be more evil then Satan. There is no evil in a person if all His ways are justice and all of His activity is perfect.

From what I read in the Bible God lets people either follow Him or follow something else and only steps in when the people that follow Him are about to completely wiped off the Earth. The Hebrew scriptures is full of that kind of example. Starting with the Great Flood followed by the attempted genocide in Egypt. That is just to name two. Then if we read the books by the major and minor prophets we read how Israel itself turned murderous toward it's own righteous people. Over and over God had to step in to do damage control to save the line of David.

It sounds like you believe we have free will until God needs to “step in.�

We have freedom of choice at all times. We can choose life or death.
“I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive.�—Deut 30:19.

There is no 'stepping in' as in taking over our choices. He 'steps in' when mankind's choices as a group are set on killing all of His faithful servants. Read the major and minor prophets in the OT. Over and over are judgements against many nations and even Israel about how they are treating the God's righteous people and that on account of them they will be judged.

I know, O LORD , that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps. (Jer 10:23)

That is right but He allows people to direct their own step anyway. He gives the correct path but when they don't take it, He lets them fail. God doesn't choose for them to fail. That would be wicked of Him.

Here is that scripture in context. Note that people still ignore God's ways. The scripture is not supporting that there is no freedom of choice. It's explaining what happens when a person chooses not to allow God to direct his step.

"I well know, O Jehovah, that man’s way does not belong to him. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step. Correct me, O Jehovah, with judgment, But not in your anger, that you may not reduce me to nothing. Pour out your wrath on the nations who ignore you And on the families who do not call on your name. For they have devoured Jacob, Yes, they have devoured him to the point of extermination, And they have desolated his homeland." Jer 10:32-25.

Here once again is Jehovah stepping in to save His people from 'extermination'. From those that 'direct their own step'. Context in scripture is so important.

[brianbbs67]

I am enjoying the swirl of ideas. Keep them coming.

I think that someone believing they can not choose their own path, is a cop out. Releases them from the responsibility of their choice. Our choices have consequences, good and bad. God seems willing to redirect even the most offensive, if they will be directed. That is a choice and free will.