Did Christ have free will?

[brianbbs67]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

[2timothy316]

Not to say that the free will is without its limitations, but as long as there is choice...

True. I can't free will myself to break gravity and fly.
True every living thing has the choice to follow God or not. If we didn't then what in the world do we need a Bible for with laws, commandments and principles? The Bible is full of choices complete with the outcomes that come from all choices. Why would we need to know the reward or curse of a path if there is no choice?

Certainly Jesus would have known the outcome if he chose to not to follow his Father's will. So he must have known this and certainly didn't want to do the opposite of his Father's will.

[brianbbs67]

Not to say that the free will is without its limitations, but as long as there is choice...

True. I can't free will myself to break gravity and fly. You're not trying hard enough,
True every living thing has the choice to follow God or not. If we didn't then what in the world do we need a Bible for with laws, commandments and principles? The Bible is full of choices complete with the outcomes that come from all choices. Why would we need to know the reward or curse of a path if there is no choice?
Right There is no consequence without a choice

Certainly Jesus would have known the outcome if he chose to not to follow his Father's will. So he must have known this and certainly didn't want to do the opposite of his Father's will.

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[ttruscott]

And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy (distressed).
Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless NOT AS I WILL, but as thou wilt. (Mat 26:37-39)

And what is Jesus’ will? “let this cup pass from me� is his will.

I seems logical to me that He knew His will was in agreement with the Father about His crucifixion so His will cannot be that He not die. He was chosen to be the slain Lamb from the foundation of the world after all.

This makes it more probable that what He feared was dying in the garden before He could fulfill the scriptures about His death...and was unsure if the plans had changed...

"Let this cup of an early death in the garden without being condemned by the court etc pass by me but YOUR will be done if this is YOUR decision."

[brianbbs67]

I agree with EBA. He knew exactly what would happen. And asked to be spared if possible. Remember his last command to the disciples ?

[William]

[Replying to post 73 by ttruscott]

This makes it more probable that what He feared was dying in the garden before He could fulfill the scriptures about His death...and was unsure if the plans had changed...

This would then imply that his faith in The Fathers plan (in relation to having things unfold exactly according to that plan) was shaky. He was experience unbelief in the plan.

Are you arguing that it is better for Jesus to experience unbelief in the plan than to have free will?

Doesn't unbelief in the plan contradict the story that Jesus was fully informed as to his fathers plans and the power to make those plans happen?

Isn't it more understandable (in relation to the story presented) that Jesus was having a moment of self doubt as to his abilities to go through with the plan because of fear?
He overcomes it of course, which is probably the point of the story.

He did have his own will, but set that aside in preference to his fathers will.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 73 by ttruscott]

This makes it more probable that what He feared was dying in the garden before He could fulfill the scriptures about His death...and was unsure if the plans had changed...

This would then imply that his faith in The Fathers plan (in relation to having things unfold exactly according to that plan) was shaky. He was experience unbelief in the plan.

Are you arguing that it is better for Jesus to experience unbelief in the plan than to have free will?

HE did not have unbelief in the plan that is your take, don't put it on me... as human He did not know if the plan had changed because He felt as if He was dying...

[brianbbs67]

I think none of us can know what Christ really felt. How could we?

I do know the traditional meaning of being Aggreived or grieved, implies worry and sorrow. Other wise the word would not exist as distinct.

[marco]

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So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?[/quote]

Luke tells us: "Saying, Father, if you be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done."

In other words Christ was following not what he wanted to do but what the Father required. That he felt constrained to suffer and die suggests the pressure on him to do so. Suicide bombers have perhaps similarly been forced to submit to the will of others. An interesting question is whether the force was heavenly or some human plot to get Jesus act out some scenario for political reasons.


Jesus in fact recommended that we should all give up our free will. Pray thus:
"Thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven."

[William]

[Replying to post 78 by marco]

Jesus in fact recommended that we should all give up our free will. Pray thus:
"Thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven."

In context, that is about realigning personal will with the greater mind of GOD in order that systems of parity can replace the systems of disparity.

[William]

[Replying to post 76 by ttruscott]

HE did not have unbelief in the plan that is your take, don't put it on me... as human He did not know if the plan had changed because He felt as if He was dying...

Apart from the obvious hole in your explanation (which I already covered in my last post) it appears convenient to sometimes argue Jesus was GOD when it suits, and other time argue Jesus was human.