Does God want everyone to believe in him?

[Justin108]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

[ttruscott]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

No, some are condemned for unbelief already... Jn 3:18. The people who are not condemned are those who believe already and RETURN to their Saviour: 1 Peter 2:25 For "you were like sheep going astray," but now you have RETURNED to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

[Divine Insight]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

It seems to me that this core idea of this religion is the ultimate proof of its fallacy.

The idea that is often argued is that if God actually revealed himself to us this would somehow violate our free will in being able to accept his authority or not. However, the basic stories of this theology already show that this can't be the case. Satan supposedly believed that God existed because Satan was hoping to overthrow God's authority and take his place as the ultimate dictator. So Satan certainly had the ability to reject the authority of God even though he knew God existed.

The same is true for Adam and Eve. They had also conversed with God prior to their choice to supposedly disobey him. So knowing that God exists does not coerce anyone into accepting God's authority. In fact, neither does believing in God. A person can believe in God and still refuse to obey him. In fact, Christians claim to do this all the time. They claim to believe in God yet openly confess to continue to commit sins all the time anyway. They claim that it's impossible for any human to be perfect, even if they believe in God. But that's actually not what the Bible says:

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

According to 1 John those who are born of God sinneth not. Therefore in PCE none of the "elect" could sin. And in orthodox Christianity certainly no one who has accepted Christ into their heart could sin. How could they sin if they have Christ in their heart? So the idea of a Christian who has accepted Christ continuing to sin in any way violates the Gospel of 1 John. Christians who have accepted Christ can surely not sin ever again. But they claim that they do. In fact, we know that Christians who claim to have accepted Christ are not morally perfect. So something's wrong here. At the very least we would need to conclude that whoever wrote 1 John had no idea what they are talking about. Or I suppose we could instead conclude that the vast majority of Christians who claim to have accepted Christ are insincere and haven't really done that at all.

~~~~~~~

From another perspective:

During the time of Jesus this God felt it necessary to call out from the clouds proclaiming Jesus to be his Son. Supposedly this would have violated everyone's free will who might have been doubting Jesus. For now they would have no choice but to believe he was God's Son.

This is also problematic in that it raises the question of why God would feel a need to announce from the clouds that Jesus is his son? This can only make sense if we conclude that God himself did not feel that Jesus was convincing on his own. After all the people God was speaking to from the clouds had been in Jesus' personal company and teachings already. So if Jesus was so compelling, and believable, then why did God think it would be necessary to confirm that Jesus was his son by announcing it from the clouds?

Finally, the people in Jesus' day had the evidence of Jesus supposedly performing all manner of clearly supernatural miracles as well as having risen from the dead, and ascending to heaven right before their eyes. According to Matthew, even saints were supernaturally risen from their graves as well to go into the Holy City and show themselves to the people there.

So apparently this God didn't seem to mind giving all these people direct evidence of supernatural events right before their eyes. Was God then violating all these people's free will to believe on faith alone?

And now for the real kicker. Here we are some 2000 years removed from these ancient religious fables that aren't even remotely unique as they are just one collection of fables among man very similar fables. Yet we are expected to believe in this particular fables with absolutely no evidence at all lest we will be condemned to spiritual death or far worse.

These fables are not only convincing, but they actually contain countless self-contradictions and other absurdities. In fact, even the most devout Christian believers disagree with each other over what these fables actually have to say. So they aren't even clear. Even the Christians have to confess this, at least until they can get their act together and come up with a single coherent picture of Christianity. But that clearly is never going to happen. To the contrary newly progressive factions of Christianity only keep emerging. It's extremely unlikely (practically impossible) that there will ever be a time in the future when Christians will eventually come together with a single compelling picture of this religion. That's just never going to happy. It's only going to continue to degenerate into even more disagreeing factions as time marches on.

So we today, have absolutely no compelling evidence to believe that anything about this religion is true. In fact, we have precisely the opposite. We actually have overwhelming evidence for why these religious fables cannot possibly be true.

So where is this God today? Shouldn't he be speaking out from the clouds to us saying, "Hey Jesus was my Son! I promise!"

I mean seriously. Why should we be condemned to have to believe on "bad evidence" (i.e. basically no evidence), and utterly absurd and self-contradictory ancient fables, when people in the past (including Adam and Eve, and even Satan), were supposedly given proof of God.

Yet here we are being condemned for not believing in outrageously absurd ancient fables, and the argument given is that if God spoke to us from the clouds or a burning bush that would violate our free will.

How can anyone not see that this argument fails every test of rational thinking?

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Did you mean this God?

[1213]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

God seems to want that people who are righteous, because eternal life is a gift for righteous.


These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

[William]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

Why not ask her?

[JehovahsWitness]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

That would be a start but according to the bible, Satan and the demons are not atheists, they know there is a God and they know his identity and power. YHWH (Jehovah) has put the bar much higher than simple belief; biblically speaing the central issue has never been whether God exists or not.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


QUESTION: Why didn't God destroy Satan immediately?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 975#845975

[rikuoamero]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

That would be a start but according to the bible, Satan and the demons are not atheists, they know there is a God and they know his identity and power. YHWH (Jehovah) has put the bar much higher than simple belief; biblically speaing the central issue has never been whether God exists or not.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


QUESTION: Why didn't God destroy Satan immediately?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 975#845975

...but he still wants belief, even if as a subset or component of something else, such as surrender/obedience to him, right?
I mean, Justin's question and your response is like asking does a Navy SEAL sergeant want his recruits able march in a straight line, with you responding not just that but to endure gruelling marches across rough terrain.
So let's go through this one step at a time shall we? Does God want or not want us to believe in him? There's no point in this thread to jump straight to whether or not God wants obedience, when we haven't even gotten belief in his existence sorted out yet.

[amortalman]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

Apparently, he did not. Jesus made many of his parables intentionally vague so that many could not understand them including his own disciples (but they got a private interpretation. How nice).

If he really wanted everyone to believe in him he might try showing himself. Perhaps a drastic measure, but the severe consequences of unbelief seem to require drastic measures. If his mercy is as great as we're lead to believe this would be a good place to start.

[Justin108]

Does God want everyone to believe in him?

Why not ask her?

Oh your earth God is a she now? Well I've asked God several times before, so I guess utter silence in response is essentially the same as "no".